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Headset cup size  RSS Feed

#1 2007-08-24 8:20pm

bobotski
Member
Registered: 2007-06-30
Posts: 45
Bikes: 1

Headset cup size

I'm building an 89 haro group 1 and bought a tange headset on ebay, thinking that all headsets designed for a 1" fork are the same. Lo' and behold, when I got the headset, the cups were smaller than the frame's tube. I guess it was my fault for not doing some research, but I never had this problem before (on a previous project, I bought a tioga beartrap and it fits exactly on my skyway streetbeat).

I guess my question is, how do you distinguish from a headset what the bearing cup size is? So far when I see headsets on sale, it only says its made for a 1" fork.

BTW, I got a tange where the box says "Tange professional head parts MA-60 25.4x24tpi 'Excellent'"

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#2 2007-08-25 11:44am

lord_athlon
Intermediate
From: Tucson, AZ
Registered: 2006-10-03
Posts: 342
Bikes: 6

Re: Headset cup size

1 inch bmx and 1 inch for mtb and road.


Used to be into Old school race bikes, now im only into Mid school Haros for the most part.

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#3 2007-08-25 12:55pm

abombone
Centurion Member
From: Seattle
Registered: 2006-09-29
Posts: 214
Bikes: 8

Re: Headset cup size

Not trying to dig on you here bobotski -just trying to help. I've been there before years ago.....
As a general rule, when we talk about older 1" (25.4mm) headsets we're referring to the diameter of the fork tube itself. The inner diameter and the 24tpi threading on most older headsets are virtually the same. However, the headset cups themselves generally came in two sizes bitd -a smaller 30.2mm cup for road, touring, and mountain bikes, and a stouter and slightly larger 32.7mm cup to accommodate the needs of BMX bikes with their larger headtubes. Most BMX headsets (including Tange/Tioga) have a "BMX" or "motocross" designation labeled on them or on the box they are packed in, however to add to the confusion they are not always labeled with the cup size...

Last edited by abombone (2007-08-25 12:59pm)

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#4 2007-08-25 1:15pm

bobotski
Member
Registered: 2007-06-30
Posts: 45
Bikes: 1

Re: Headset cup size

No worries 'bone, this is exactly the information I'm trying to get. So I take it that virtually no BMX frame came out with the smaller diameter, huh? Dang, I wish this information was on the listing when I bought it off ebay. Oh well, it goes back there again, some old biker might be needing it more than me.

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#5 2007-08-25 1:36pm

abombone
Centurion Member
From: Seattle
Registered: 2006-09-29
Posts: 214
Bikes: 8

Re: Headset cup size

there were a few mini's in the early 80's that were manufactured with the smaller headtube, and they were generally built with high-end alloy headsets with cool features like roller/needle bearings to save weight. I'd say they account for less than 1% of the total amount of BMX bikes manufactured during that time.
If you bought your headset in the BMX parts section of Ebay, I would say you have a pretty convincing case to return it for a full refund if the auction was not labeled appropriately as you don't have a BMX headset there. If you end up listing it -list it in the Road bike parts section of Ebay as there is a huge vintage road bike movement as well and someone is bound to need it...

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#6 2007-08-28 7:49pm

badmofo
Museum Addict
From: Baltimore, MD
Registered: 2007-07-30
Posts: 1390
Bikes: 16
Website

Re: Headset cup size

I'm having a problem right now with finding a headset for an older Mongoose with the forks that resemble, and might just be, Tange TX1200's.  The Tioga Beartrap II, and simillar others, have a different thread pitch or ????  The retaining nuts start but get tight right away.  I used a thread file to clean up the threads and they are def. 24tpi???  Someone told me that back in 78-79 Skip Hess had the forks threaded w/ "Schwinn Type" threads, sames as old Redline, but can anyone verify this or HELP!!!  I have an old Pyramid ATB/Road headset (cheap Taiwan junk) that the nuts thread right on, but the cups/races are not what I'm after, and I don't even know if they would fit if I had to use them.  What is the deal???  Maybe this old Tange thing here would work for me???


Grammar is important. Capital letters are the difference between helping your Uncle Jack off a horse, and helping your uncle jack off a horse.

Ezekiel 25:17 ~ "The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men....."

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#7 2007-08-29 8:59pm

bobotski
Member
Registered: 2007-06-30
Posts: 45
Bikes: 1

Re: Headset cup size

Seems like your problem is with the thread, not the cup size. My dilemna is the other way around -- correct 24tpi thread size, but incorrect cup size. Most likely this won't work for you, sorry.

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#8 2019-07-09 10:27pm

glacas
Pro Member
From: CY
Registered: 2013-04-17
Posts: 579
Bikes: 22
For Sale: 4

Re: Headset cup size

abombone wrote:

Not trying to dig on you here bobotski -just trying to help. I've been there before years ago.....
As a general rule, when we talk about older 1" (25.4mm) headsets we're referring to the diameter of the fork tube itself. The inner diameter and the 24tpi threading on most older headsets are virtually the same. However, the headset cups themselves generally came in two sizes bitd -a smaller 30.2mm cup for road, touring, and mountain bikes, and a stouter and slightly larger 32.7mm cup to accommodate the needs of BMX bikes with their larger headtubes. Most BMX headsets (including Tange/Tioga) have a "BMX" or "motocross" designation labeled on them or on the box they are packed in, however to add to the confusion they are not always labeled with the cup size...

This is very clear, thanks for the info.
I know the post is old but people like me still facing the same problem today. smile 1" headset and the cups were small. Also the adjustable race was flat compare to the BMX one.
Keep up..

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#9 2019-07-11 12:30am

Crashman
Pro MemberTo Get Me Riled
From: Mount Pleasant, MI
Registered: 2012-04-22
Posts: 6475
Bikes: 2

Re: Headset cup size

glacas wrote:

abombone wrote:

Not trying to dig on you here bobotski -just trying to help. I've been there before years ago.....
As a general rule, when we talk about older 1" (25.4mm) headsets we're referring to the diameter of the fork tube itself. The inner diameter and the 24tpi threading on most older headsets are virtually the same. However, the headset cups themselves generally came in two sizes bitd -a smaller 30.2mm cup for road, touring, and mountain bikes, and a stouter and slightly larger 32.7mm cup to accommodate the needs of BMX bikes with their larger headtubes. Most BMX headsets (including Tange/Tioga) have a "BMX" or "motocross" designation labeled on them or on the box they are packed in, however to add to the confusion they are not always labeled with the cup size...

This is very clear, thanks for the info.
I know the post is old but people like me still facing the same problem today. smile 1" headset and the cups were small. Also the adjustable race was flat compare to the BMX one.
Keep up..

The BMX headset size came from Schwinn. Schwinn parts were common in the mid 70's when BMX standards were introduced, so Mongoose used the Schwinn headsets and 28TPI cranks and everyone copied. There were other companies doing the same, but Mongoose had the volume to assure Schwinn's low-end headset became the BMX standard.

Huffy used the same head tube I.D. as Schwinn, but Huffy's cups were tapered so that the opening would stretch when the headset was pressed in. Hence Schwinn headsets often fit Huffy frames loosely.

Murray had a 34mm ID, thus a Murray 1" headset also fits a 1 1/8" frame and vice versa. I'm still waiting for someone to use that information for something weird.

ISO headsets were originally the British standard, but the Brits had two different threads (Raleigh-v-everyone else). As the world (apart from BMX) adopted the "everyone else" standard, so eventually did Raleigh. Even the high-end Schwinn frames (most fillet-brazed models) got ISO headsets.

And so we have Schwinn/BMX size vs ISO from the mid 70's to the mid 90's, with some carry over of the oddball BMX size. Alternatively we had some high-end vintage BMX frames using ISO, such as the early RRS frames and the Schwinn Sting. Minis often used ISO headsets as well.


Wanted: OPC shells for 6005 bearings (47mm)

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