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epoch headset, freestyle vs. race differances  RSS Feed

#1 2013-05-17 9:16pm

caleb_k31
BMXer 4 Life
From: Milwaukee, WI
Registered: 2006-04-07
Posts: 6884
Bikes: 15

epoch headset, freestyle vs. race differances

ok I have had to explain this enough times to make a thread, this will save me so much time in the long run. I will post the link in my signature and I can direct people to it rather than explain it over and over again.


for those who do not know this, you cannot just swap the top cap from a race headset and turn it into a freestyle headset, in some cases it will work, but if you want to do it you must make sure the top bearing race is correct (the black part that holds the spring).

difference between the bearing race. left side is freestyle. the concaved part is more tall and narrow, it sits deeper into the bearing.

right side is the race version, the concaved part is wider and shorter.  I have seen some race headsets with the race that works for freestyle but not all of them.

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r183/caleb_K21/bike%20parts%20referance/005-1_zps1779b644.jpg

this is what happens if you only switch the top cap. it creates a large gap because the top race is not sitting down far enough. of course you could use it like this, but it looks silly and lets much more dirt and water into the headset.

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r183/caleb_K21/bike%20parts%20referance/003-3_zps34db10e4.jpg

also you must use the bearing with the round retainers, like the ones seen here.  the oval type retainers will not work with the freestyle top bearing race, because the tall narrow part of the bearing race actually sits inside the bearing retainer and the oval bearing retainers do not have a large enough inside diameter for the bearing race to fit inside.   

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r183/caleb_K21/pink%20GT/012-1.jpg


here you can see how the oval bearing retainers don't fit over the bearing race.

http://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/gg548/caleb_k31/refferance/003-2_zpsba04d020.jpg
round retainers fit.

http://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/gg548/caleb_k31/refferance/002-4_zps07b61e73.jpg



PFT gyro cable variation. the lower cable on an 80's PFT is different than others. the double part above the split is much shorted for the PFT. this is a regular one next to the shorter one.

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r183/caleb_K21/bike%20parts%20referance/030_zps3e499cf3.jpg


here is some GT tire differences. rare shinko race tires, freestyle, and the other race tires.

the shinko's have 2 larger GT wing logo's with a blue outline. the tread it a little deeper and the GT lettering on the tread is slightly bigger than the other race tires.

the more common race tires have one small GT logo.

the freestyle tires have a different font and tread pattern under the letters, it kinda looks like the top of a castle and some often refer to them as castle tread.

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r183/caleb_K21/bike%20parts%20referance/008_zps624f6281.jpg

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r183/caleb_K21/bike%20parts%20referance/007_zps8ece89d7.jpg

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r183/caleb_K21/bike%20parts%20referance/005_zpsbf58e762.jpg


seat post differences

pink 87 large circle stamp
white 85 small circle stamp with cr-mo 4130 under it, this one bends back further.
green, same bend as the white one, but no stamp.

they are all a different length.


http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r183/caleb_K21/bike%20parts%20referance/015_zpsd795c1ce.jpg

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r183/caleb_K21/bike%20parts%20referance/016_zpsb6ea661b.jpg

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r183/caleb_K21/bike%20parts%20referance/017_zps179adc27.jpg

Last edited by caleb_k31 (2014-03-29 3:18pm)


WILL NOT DEAL WITH LIST 619-bmx, Boyd, NickWG19, quadsticher, Djrothus, cgeorge715, bob70, sharkbite, Luke Sears ebay name bmxbrigade.

GT fork stander spring install - http://bmxmuseum.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=426565
PFT restoration thread - http://bmxmuseum.com/forums/viewtopic.p … 50&p=1
epoch headset, freestyle vs. race - http://bmxmuseum.com/forums/viewtopic.p … 7#p4233077

All the hub/hoop measuring info you will need along with spoke calculation info http://bmxmuseum.com/forums/viewtopic.p … 9#p5435389

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#2 2013-05-17 9:43pm

polanco
Pro Member
From: Santo Domingo, DR
Registered: 2007-02-08
Posts: 5301
Bikes: 68
Website

Re: epoch headset, freestyle vs. race differances

great info caleb, thanks!

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#3 2013-05-18 6:48pm

freshmans
Pro Member
From: Somewhere on planet earth
Registered: 2007-05-11
Posts: 1080

Re: epoch headset, freestyle vs. race differances

Thanks Caleb, very useful smile


Laurent


Looking for:
90 Haro Sport frameset (or frame only)
NOS Haro Sport black and blue/black decal sets
NOS or mint 175 drive side Peregrine 1st gen crank arm
Revcore freestyle stem
White Haro HPM tires
...

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#4 2013-05-19 6:10pm

dts123
Pro Member
From: RVA, Virginia
Registered: 2010-10-29
Posts: 1147
Bikes: 8

Re: epoch headset, freestyle vs. race differances

Thanks.


I cheated. I didn't have the cap so I just put the gyro plate right on top the spring casing.  Then a hutch 2n1 on top.   Seems fine and the gyro plate keeps the dirt out.


http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g438/yahtoo123/DSC_0015.jpg

Last edited by dts123 (2013-05-19 6:29pm)


Was Looking for an RL20ii...Was looking for a master or sport.  Now looking for a Trickstar.

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#5 2013-05-19 8:30pm

tomknox
Pro Member
From: NC
Registered: 2012-06-06
Posts: 1493

Re: epoch headset, freestyle vs. race differances

big_smile Very informitive considering i only have parts but not a complete. Nice write up!! wink

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#6 2013-05-19 9:01pm

caleb_k31
BMXer 4 Life
From: Milwaukee, WI
Registered: 2006-04-07
Posts: 6884
Bikes: 15

Re: epoch headset, freestyle vs. race differances

very innovative dts. 

thanks guys, I'm just glad I don't have to type this out in PM anymore.


WILL NOT DEAL WITH LIST 619-bmx, Boyd, NickWG19, quadsticher, Djrothus, cgeorge715, bob70, sharkbite, Luke Sears ebay name bmxbrigade.

GT fork stander spring install - http://bmxmuseum.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=426565
PFT restoration thread - http://bmxmuseum.com/forums/viewtopic.p … 50&p=1
epoch headset, freestyle vs. race - http://bmxmuseum.com/forums/viewtopic.p … 7#p4233077

All the hub/hoop measuring info you will need along with spoke calculation info http://bmxmuseum.com/forums/viewtopic.p … 9#p5435389

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#7 2013-05-19 9:21pm

seansoclean
Pro Member
From: St. Pete, FL
Registered: 2006-08-31
Posts: 897
Bikes: 4

Re: epoch headset, freestyle vs. race differances

Thanks for posting!!!!! helps out a lot.


It is better to sting with the truth than to comfort with a lie.

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#8 2013-08-24 7:37pm

caleb_k31
BMXer 4 Life
From: Milwaukee, WI
Registered: 2006-04-07
Posts: 6884
Bikes: 15

Re: epoch headset, freestyle vs. race differances

some tire info added.


WILL NOT DEAL WITH LIST 619-bmx, Boyd, NickWG19, quadsticher, Djrothus, cgeorge715, bob70, sharkbite, Luke Sears ebay name bmxbrigade.

GT fork stander spring install - http://bmxmuseum.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=426565
PFT restoration thread - http://bmxmuseum.com/forums/viewtopic.p … 50&p=1
epoch headset, freestyle vs. race - http://bmxmuseum.com/forums/viewtopic.p … 7#p4233077

All the hub/hoop measuring info you will need along with spoke calculation info http://bmxmuseum.com/forums/viewtopic.p … 9#p5435389

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#9 2013-09-08 5:23pm

caleb_k31
BMXer 4 Life
From: Milwaukee, WI
Registered: 2006-04-07
Posts: 6884
Bikes: 15

Re: epoch headset, freestyle vs. race differances

bump


WILL NOT DEAL WITH LIST 619-bmx, Boyd, NickWG19, quadsticher, Djrothus, cgeorge715, bob70, sharkbite, Luke Sears ebay name bmxbrigade.

GT fork stander spring install - http://bmxmuseum.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=426565
PFT restoration thread - http://bmxmuseum.com/forums/viewtopic.p … 50&p=1
epoch headset, freestyle vs. race - http://bmxmuseum.com/forums/viewtopic.p … 7#p4233077

All the hub/hoop measuring info you will need along with spoke calculation info http://bmxmuseum.com/forums/viewtopic.p … 9#p5435389

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#10 2013-10-30 4:06pm

DJDV
Museum Addict
From: CEN CAL
Registered: 2012-08-11
Posts: 1018

Re: epoch headset, freestyle vs. race differances

BUMP

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#11 2013-11-03 3:34pm

caleb_k31
BMXer 4 Life
From: Milwaukee, WI
Registered: 2006-04-07
Posts: 6884
Bikes: 15

Re: epoch headset, freestyle vs. race differances

seat post info added


WILL NOT DEAL WITH LIST 619-bmx, Boyd, NickWG19, quadsticher, Djrothus, cgeorge715, bob70, sharkbite, Luke Sears ebay name bmxbrigade.

GT fork stander spring install - http://bmxmuseum.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=426565
PFT restoration thread - http://bmxmuseum.com/forums/viewtopic.p … 50&p=1
epoch headset, freestyle vs. race - http://bmxmuseum.com/forums/viewtopic.p … 7#p4233077

All the hub/hoop measuring info you will need along with spoke calculation info http://bmxmuseum.com/forums/viewtopic.p … 9#p5435389

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#12 2013-11-03 11:57pm

SliceSlanger
Intermediate
Registered: 2011-04-29
Posts: 337

Re: epoch headset, freestyle vs. race differances

caleb_k31 wrote:

seat post info added

Can we get some research together on the 86 posts?  The wierd 22.6 post needed to fit properly. Alot of 86 GT's came with 7/8 with a shim that made it 22.6, but I have seen alot without the shim in the mast.

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#13 2013-11-04 6:52am

caleb_k31
BMXer 4 Life
From: Milwaukee, WI
Registered: 2006-04-07
Posts: 6884
Bikes: 15

Re: epoch headset, freestyle vs. race differances

SliceSlanger wrote:

caleb_k31 wrote:

seat post info added

Can we get some research together on the 86 posts?  The wierd 22.6 post needed to fit properly. Alot of 86 GT's came with 7/8 with a shim that made it 22.6, but I have seen alot without the shim in the mast.

unfortunately I don't know anything about the 86's


WILL NOT DEAL WITH LIST 619-bmx, Boyd, NickWG19, quadsticher, Djrothus, cgeorge715, bob70, sharkbite, Luke Sears ebay name bmxbrigade.

GT fork stander spring install - http://bmxmuseum.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=426565
PFT restoration thread - http://bmxmuseum.com/forums/viewtopic.p … 50&p=1
epoch headset, freestyle vs. race - http://bmxmuseum.com/forums/viewtopic.p … 7#p4233077

All the hub/hoop measuring info you will need along with spoke calculation info http://bmxmuseum.com/forums/viewtopic.p … 9#p5435389

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#14 2013-12-13 2:22pm

tatmike
Expert
From: Phoenix, AZ
Registered: 2009-08-14
Posts: 538
Bikes: 8

Re: epoch headset, freestyle vs. race differances

caleb_k31 wrote:

bump

Hey Caleb, I am wondering about how to fit a spintech and gyro set up but also use an epoch headset. With the wider top cap, the cables wont fit into the gyro. Any ideas other than just get another headset...? Thanks for your help...
Mike


Get on your bike and ride..!!!!!!!!!!!

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#15 2013-12-13 3:16pm

caleb_k31
BMXer 4 Life
From: Milwaukee, WI
Registered: 2006-04-07
Posts: 6884
Bikes: 15

Re: epoch headset, freestyle vs. race differances

your gonna need a gyro compatible epoch, the race version will not work with a gyro. PM me if you want a decent used one.


WILL NOT DEAL WITH LIST 619-bmx, Boyd, NickWG19, quadsticher, Djrothus, cgeorge715, bob70, sharkbite, Luke Sears ebay name bmxbrigade.

GT fork stander spring install - http://bmxmuseum.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=426565
PFT restoration thread - http://bmxmuseum.com/forums/viewtopic.p … 50&p=1
epoch headset, freestyle vs. race - http://bmxmuseum.com/forums/viewtopic.p … 7#p4233077

All the hub/hoop measuring info you will need along with spoke calculation info http://bmxmuseum.com/forums/viewtopic.p … 9#p5435389

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#16 2013-12-21 6:47pm

tatmike
Expert
From: Phoenix, AZ
Registered: 2009-08-14
Posts: 538
Bikes: 8

Re: epoch headset, freestyle vs. race differances

caleb_k31 wrote:

your gonna need a gyro compatible epoch, the race version will not work with a gyro. PM me if you want a decent used one.

Pm sent


Get on your bike and ride..!!!!!!!!!!!

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#17 2014-03-21 2:05pm

raulluis
Pro Member
From: Puerto Rico, USA
Registered: 2011-11-21
Posts: 479
Bikes: 1
For Sale: 3

Re: epoch headset, freestyle vs. race differances

Hello Caleb

Look what I have noticed on my headsets cups
both of them do not have the same bearing space height and looking to other factory assembled bikes with 1" threaded headsets the cup with the lower height is in the top and the other with the taller height is in the bottom of the head tube.



http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f26/integra89vtec/GT%20AGGRESSOR%20REBUILD/IMG_20140319_125758_617-1.jpg


If you can't stand behind our troops,then,feel free to stand in front of them.

My 1990 GT Aggressor build !!!
http://bmxmuseum.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=560014

2015 Mid School Build OFF
http://bmxmuseum.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=602923

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#18 2014-03-25 1:16pm

raulluis
Pro Member
From: Puerto Rico, USA
Registered: 2011-11-21
Posts: 479
Bikes: 1
For Sale: 3

Re: epoch headset, freestyle vs. race differances

My point is,
that using a freestyle race with a concaved part taller and narrower and a bearing with a rounded retainers it looks like this,with that huge gap between the cup and the epoch cap
I will find another bearings with rounded retainers but with the smaller balls to see what difference it makes

The parts I am using

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f26/integra89vtec/GT%20AGGRESSOR%20REBUILD/IMG_20140325_160044_422.jpg



Cup with the deeper bearing space that should be the cup of the bottom of the head tube

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f26/integra89vtec/GT%20AGGRESSOR%20REBUILD/IMG_20140325_155636_025.jpg



Cup with smaller bearing space that should be the cup of the top of the head tube

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f26/integra89vtec/GT%20AGGRESSOR%20REBUILD/IMG_20140325_155708_649.jpg


If you can't stand behind our troops,then,feel free to stand in front of them.

My 1990 GT Aggressor build !!!
http://bmxmuseum.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=560014

2015 Mid School Build OFF
http://bmxmuseum.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=602923

Online

 

#19 2014-03-25 2:26pm

caleb_k31
BMXer 4 Life
From: Milwaukee, WI
Registered: 2006-04-07
Posts: 6884
Bikes: 15

Re: epoch headset, freestyle vs. race differances

i don't believe any of my epoch headsets came with 2 different size cups.  where did you get that one? was it an original epoch or are the cups from something else?


WILL NOT DEAL WITH LIST 619-bmx, Boyd, NickWG19, quadsticher, Djrothus, cgeorge715, bob70, sharkbite, Luke Sears ebay name bmxbrigade.

GT fork stander spring install - http://bmxmuseum.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=426565
PFT restoration thread - http://bmxmuseum.com/forums/viewtopic.p … 50&p=1
epoch headset, freestyle vs. race - http://bmxmuseum.com/forums/viewtopic.p … 7#p4233077

All the hub/hoop measuring info you will need along with spoke calculation info http://bmxmuseum.com/forums/viewtopic.p … 9#p5435389

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#20 2014-03-25 2:32pm

raulluis
Pro Member
From: Puerto Rico, USA
Registered: 2011-11-21
Posts: 479
Bikes: 1
For Sale: 3

Re: epoch headset, freestyle vs. race differances

caleb_k31 wrote:

i don't believe any of my epoch headsets came with 2 different size cups.  where did you get that one? was it an original epoch or are the cups from something else?

No,they are not original to that epoch and as I do not have another orignal epoch of that type I can not compare


If you can't stand behind our troops,then,feel free to stand in front of them.

My 1990 GT Aggressor build !!!
http://bmxmuseum.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=560014

2015 Mid School Build OFF
http://bmxmuseum.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=602923

Online

 

#21 2014-03-28 4:59pm

caleb_k31
BMXer 4 Life
From: Milwaukee, WI
Registered: 2006-04-07
Posts: 6884
Bikes: 15

Re: epoch headset, freestyle vs. race differances

I added some pedal pics.


WILL NOT DEAL WITH LIST 619-bmx, Boyd, NickWG19, quadsticher, Djrothus, cgeorge715, bob70, sharkbite, Luke Sears ebay name bmxbrigade.

GT fork stander spring install - http://bmxmuseum.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=426565
PFT restoration thread - http://bmxmuseum.com/forums/viewtopic.p … 50&p=1
epoch headset, freestyle vs. race - http://bmxmuseum.com/forums/viewtopic.p … 7#p4233077

All the hub/hoop measuring info you will need along with spoke calculation info http://bmxmuseum.com/forums/viewtopic.p … 9#p5435389

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#22 2014-12-17 3:27pm

caleb_k31
BMXer 4 Life
From: Milwaukee, WI
Registered: 2006-04-07
Posts: 6884
Bikes: 15

Re: epoch headset, freestyle vs. race differances

smile


WILL NOT DEAL WITH LIST 619-bmx, Boyd, NickWG19, quadsticher, Djrothus, cgeorge715, bob70, sharkbite, Luke Sears ebay name bmxbrigade.

GT fork stander spring install - http://bmxmuseum.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=426565
PFT restoration thread - http://bmxmuseum.com/forums/viewtopic.p … 50&p=1
epoch headset, freestyle vs. race - http://bmxmuseum.com/forums/viewtopic.p … 7#p4233077

All the hub/hoop measuring info you will need along with spoke calculation info http://bmxmuseum.com/forums/viewtopic.p … 9#p5435389

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#23 2015-05-26 5:15am

grumpyerr
Pro Member
From: Detroit burb
Registered: 2014-08-09
Posts: 1466

Re: epoch headset, freestyle vs. race differances

Found this thread for the great info headsets and then discovered you also covered seat posts. Awesome posts Caleb !

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#24 2015-05-30 12:57pm

caleb_k31
BMXer 4 Life
From: Milwaukee, WI
Registered: 2006-04-07
Posts: 6884
Bikes: 15

Re: epoch headset, freestyle vs. race differances

sorry sold that post but in the pic it looks like 15-1/4" from the bend down.


WILL NOT DEAL WITH LIST 619-bmx, Boyd, NickWG19, quadsticher, Djrothus, cgeorge715, bob70, sharkbite, Luke Sears ebay name bmxbrigade.

GT fork stander spring install - http://bmxmuseum.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=426565
PFT restoration thread - http://bmxmuseum.com/forums/viewtopic.p … 50&p=1
epoch headset, freestyle vs. race - http://bmxmuseum.com/forums/viewtopic.p … 7#p4233077

All the hub/hoop measuring info you will need along with spoke calculation info http://bmxmuseum.com/forums/viewtopic.p … 9#p5435389

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