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Prove me wrong S&M guru's

#1 2020-10-27 5:23pm

suicidepan
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Prove me wrong S&M guru's

Working on cruisers today and thinking which for me can be dangerous sometimes lol. Working on pre widowmaker #048 the 9th oldest s&m cruiser in the museum and surrounded by lots of early 20" S&M's and thought "what if we're all wrong on the years of pre widowmaker cruisers ? I have a very extensive library of 1992 to 1996 bmx magazines bmx plus, go, & ridebmx. 100% I can find nothing before February 1993 where the new widowmaker is mentioned which is also the year and month the oldest known widowmaker was purchased from Moeller by the original owner #092. Being that magazines usually came out around three months after information was gathered it's is my belief that all pre widowmakers were built in 1992. Prove me wrong lol


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#2 2020-10-27 10:10pm

MonocoqueMike
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Re: Prove me wrong S&M guru's

John Severin welded all of the no letter three number serials from what I can tell. I have a 92 “Murray” stay holmes that has a 007 serial number. So it’s only logical to think that anything with a number higher than that was made in 92 or later.


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#3 2020-10-27 10:11pm

MonocoqueMike
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Re: Prove me wrong S&M guru's

Maybe 91....


It's all in the Technique...

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#4 2020-10-27 10:19pm

ILLISS
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Re: Prove me wrong S&M guru's

#026

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#5 2020-10-28 5:25am

suicidepan
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Re: Prove me wrong S&M guru's

MonocoqueMike wrote:

John Severin welded all of the no letter three number serials from what I can tell. I have a 92 “Murray” stay holmes that has a 007 serial number. So it’s only logical to think that anything with a number higher than that was made in 92 or later.

That is very interesting information thank you. cool very cool serial number you have also I'll have to see what the serial numbers on my Murray stays look like I don't think I've ever checked smile


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#6 2020-10-28 5:27am

suicidepan
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Re: Prove me wrong S&M guru's

I'm really trying to figure out when the cruisers first came out I'm thinking it was 92 not 90/91.  I could very well be wrong but that's why I started this post to try and solve the mystery.


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#7 2020-10-28 5:43am

MonocoqueMike
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Re: Prove me wrong S&M guru's

suicidepan wrote:

MonocoqueMike wrote:

John Severin welded all of the no letter three number serials from what I can tell. I have a 92 “Murray” stay holmes that has a 007 serial number. So it’s only logical to think that anything with a number higher than that was made in 92 or later.

That is very interesting information thank you. cool very cool serial number you have also I'll have to see what the serial numbers on my Murray stays look like I don't think I've ever checked smile

My murray stay is the only one I’ve seen that has the three digit serial number. The only reason I said it might be 91 is that Severin may have welded the first murray stay frames as prototypes. This is all pure speculation on my part.


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#8 2020-10-28 6:38am

suicidepan
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Re: Prove me wrong S&M guru's

I sent Johnny a email this morning we'll see what the response is cool


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#9 2020-10-28 7:36am

wagonguy
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Re: Prove me wrong S&M guru's

Yes, Johnny made these frames. Had this discussion with him many many years ago when he repaired and rechromed my #017.


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#10 2020-10-28 9:16am

JHARJO
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Re: Prove me wrong S&M guru's

cool


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#11 2020-10-28 9:24am

kegger
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Re: Prove me wrong S&M guru's

ok, someone show pics so i have a clue please
i dont think i know the term "murray stay" smile


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#12 2020-11-03 6:09pm

suicidepan
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Re: Prove me wrong S&M guru's

suicidepan wrote:

I sent Johnny a email this morning we'll see what the response is cool

No response from True Torch hmm  Still trying to solve the cruiser mystery.


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#13 2020-12-26 10:49am

suicidepan
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Re: Prove me wrong S&M guru's

Still no answer from true torch or anyone else lol


"Living well is the best revenge" "Give till it hurts"  - Drchopper
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#14 2020-12-26 11:53am

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Re: Prove me wrong S&M guru's

kegger wrote:

ok, someone show pics so i have a clue please
i dont think i know the term "murray stay" smile

The '92 Holmes had their Seat Stay junction modeled after the early Team Murray bikes.  A lot of them broke so it was only done for one year.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/uploads.bmxmuseum.com/user-images/35806/murray--stay-holmes5fe794a253.jpg


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Would love to find my old Dirt Bike.  It was stolen in Pompano Beach, Florida in about 1996.  It's a '92 with the block graphics on a Green frame.  Pitchforks, Slam bars, King Headset, GT (DK-style) stem and GT/Profile cranks.  Superlace hubs.  Would really love to put this back in my collection.

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#15 2020-12-26 1:33pm

suicidepan
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Re: Prove me wrong S&M guru's

My focus on this thread is the pre widowmaker cruisers. It is my belief that they were all fabricated in 1992. There is no proof of s&m making cruisers as far as magazines go before Feb 1993 were the widowmaker is mentioned. Help me unravel this mystery cool


"Living well is the best revenge" "Give till it hurts"  - Drchopper
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#16 2020-12-26 3:33pm

cru jones 2
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Re: Prove me wrong S&M guru's

It seemed that there was the mad dog/dirt bike transition, then the Holmes. I would guess some people said, hey if you make a cruiser i’d buy one, so maybe they made some in 91 sold some on 92 and connected with dee snider to make the widow maker for 93. 93 was when the challenger started, so the transition to challenger cruiser around 95 kinda served the purpose of a cruiser after that. Don’t know if it helps but kinda seems like the timeline that makes sense to me


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