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#676 2019-01-11 8:57am

jriedmiller
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From: Cincinnati, OH
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Re: 2019 Haro Master

made2drag wrote:

Or maybe it was 20.75?

I believe that's correct.


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#677 2019-01-11 9:00am

made2drag
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Re: 2019 Haro Master

jriedmiller wrote:

made2drag wrote:

Or maybe it was 20.75?

I believe that's correct.

yes sir
https://www.planetbmx.com/shop/2019-har … posit.html


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#678 2019-01-11 9:07am

oldsklHaro
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From: Iowa
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Re: 2019 Haro Master

made2drag wrote:

I doubt 20.75 and 21 are miles away of how they ride

You wouldn't think so but they are....I just finished a custom 2018 20.75 Blue/Blk master and it rides different than my 2018 21" Sport

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#679 2019-01-11 9:13am

jriedmiller
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From: Cincinnati, OH
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Re: 2019 Haro Master

oldsklHaro wrote:

made2drag wrote:

I doubt 20.75 and 21 are miles away of how they ride

You wouldn't think so but they are....I just finished a custom 2018 20.75 Blue/Blk master and it rides different than my 2018 21" Sport

Are the specs the same otherwise between the retro sport and master?  I ask because ST and HT angle can make a HUGE difference on frames of the same size as well.  Although I would expect the HT angle to be steeper on the master which would feel roomier with the bars pushed further forward, but possibly the ST angle to be more relaxed on the sport which would make it feel roomier as well.  BB height can also make a noticeable difference in cockpit comfort.


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#680 2019-01-11 9:17am

made2drag
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From: USA
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Re: 2019 Haro Master

jriedmiller wrote:

oldsklHaro wrote:

made2drag wrote:

I doubt 20.75 and 21 are miles away of how they ride

You wouldn't think so but they are....I just finished a custom 2018 20.75 Blue/Blk master and it rides different than my 2018 21" Sport

Are the specs the same otherwise between the retro sport and master?  I ask because ST and HT angle can make a HUGE difference on frames of the same size as well.  Although I would expect the HT angle to be steeper on the master which would feel roomier with the bars pushed further forward, but possibly the ST angle to be more relaxed on the sport which would make it feel roomier as well.  BB height can also make a noticeable difference in cockpit comfort.

+1

also you'd have to have exactly the same amount of chain links (exact CS length) to be comparable.  I have noticed CS length makes the biggest difference...even more than a 1/4" of top tube.


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#681 2019-01-11 9:26am

made2drag
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Re: 2019 Haro Master

I did a little browsing on different sites and couldn't find 2019 Master frame specs.  Is it 75* HT and how long is the CS?


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#682 2019-01-11 9:53am

retrofreak
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Re: 2019 Haro Master

The OG frames were 19" and rode sweet imho

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#683 2019-01-11 11:20am

oldsklHaro
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From: Iowa
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Re: 2019 Haro Master

made2drag wrote:

jriedmiller wrote:

oldsklHaro wrote:

You wouldn't think so but they are....I just finished a custom 2018 20.75 Blue/Blk master and it rides different than my 2018 21" Sport

Are the specs the same otherwise between the retro sport and master?  I ask because ST and HT angle can make a HUGE difference on frames of the same size as well.  Although I would expect the HT angle to be steeper on the master which would feel roomier with the bars pushed further forward, but possibly the ST angle to be more relaxed on the sport which would make it feel roomier as well.  BB height can also make a noticeable difference in cockpit comfort.

+1

also you'd have to have exactly the same amount of chain links (exact CS length) to be comparable.  I have noticed CS length makes the biggest difference...even more than a 1/4" of top tube.

2017 Master Specs: Taken from the 2017 Haro catalog

Head Angle   Seat Angle  Top Tube  Seat Tube  Chainstay  BB Height   Stand Over
  75°                    71°           20.75       10.80       13.75         11.5             21.5

2017 Sport Specs: Taken from the 2017 Haro catalog

Head Angle   Seat Angle  Top Tube  Seat Tube  Chainstay  BB Height   Stand Over
  75°                    71°           20.75       10.80       13.75         11.5             21.5

As you can see they are identical and I can tell you the 21" rides roomier than the 20.75". That's my opinion though, I'm 6'3" and 250 lbs so every fraction of an inch counts in my book tongue

Last edited by oldsklHaro (2019-01-11 11:22am)

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#684 2019-01-11 11:25am

jriedmiller
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From: Cincinnati, OH
Registered: 2013-03-29
Posts: 3550
Bikes: 19

Re: 2019 Haro Master

oldsklHaro wrote:

made2drag wrote:

jriedmiller wrote:

Are the specs the same otherwise between the retro sport and master?  I ask because ST and HT angle can make a HUGE difference on frames of the same size as well.  Although I would expect the HT angle to be steeper on the master which would feel roomier with the bars pushed further forward, but possibly the ST angle to be more relaxed on the sport which would make it feel roomier as well.  BB height can also make a noticeable difference in cockpit comfort.

+1

also you'd have to have exactly the same amount of chain links (exact CS length) to be comparable.  I have noticed CS length makes the biggest difference...even more than a 1/4" of top tube.

2017 Master Specs: Taken from the 2017 Haro catalog

Head Angle   Seat Angle  Top Tube  Seat Tube  Chainstay  BB Height   Stand Over
  75°                    71°           20.75       10.80       13.75         11.5             21.5

2017 Sport Specs: Taken from the 2017 Haro catalog

Head Angle   Seat Angle  Top Tube  Seat Tube  Chainstay  BB Height   Stand Over
  75°                    71°           20.75       10.80       13.75         11.5             21.5

As you can see they are identical and I can tell you the 21" rides roomier than the 20.75". That's my opinion though, I'm 6'3" and 250 lbs so every fraction of an inch counts in my book tongue

Yikes, it's literally the same frame with different top tubes...


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#685 2019-01-11 11:28am

oldsklHaro
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From: Iowa
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Re: 2019 Haro Master

jriedmiller wrote:

oldsklHaro wrote:

made2drag wrote:


+1

also you'd have to have exactly the same amount of chain links (exact CS length) to be comparable.  I have noticed CS length makes the biggest difference...even more than a 1/4" of top tube.

2017 Master Specs: Taken from the 2017 Haro catalog

Head Angle   Seat Angle  Top Tube  Seat Tube  Chainstay  BB Height   Stand Over
  75°                    71°           20.75       10.80       13.75         11.5             21.5

2017 Sport Specs: Taken from the 2017 Haro catalog

Head Angle   Seat Angle  Top Tube  Seat Tube  Chainstay  BB Height   Stand Over
  75°                    71°           20.75       10.80       13.75         11.5             21.5

As you can see they are identical and I can tell you the 21" rides roomier than the 20.75". That's my opinion though, I'm 6'3" and 250 lbs so every fraction of an inch counts in my book tongue

Yikes, it's literally the same frame with different top tubes...

Yup and so is the Oz-One frame......they are literally the same bikes lol

From FLF website:

13.6” slammed rear, 75.2º HA, 71º ST.
11.5? BB Height.

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#686 2019-01-11 11:43am

jriedmiller
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From: Cincinnati, OH
Registered: 2013-03-29
Posts: 3550
Bikes: 19

Re: 2019 Haro Master

oldsklHaro wrote:

jriedmiller wrote:

oldsklHaro wrote:


2017 Master Specs: Taken from the 2017 Haro catalog

Head Angle   Seat Angle  Top Tube  Seat Tube  Chainstay  BB Height   Stand Over
  75°                    71°           20.75       10.80       13.75         11.5             21.5

2017 Sport Specs: Taken from the 2017 Haro catalog

Head Angle   Seat Angle  Top Tube  Seat Tube  Chainstay  BB Height   Stand Over
  75°                    71°           20.75       10.80       13.75         11.5             21.5

As you can see they are identical and I can tell you the 21" rides roomier than the 20.75". That's my opinion though, I'm 6'3" and 250 lbs so every fraction of an inch counts in my book tongue

Yikes, it's literally the same frame with different top tubes...

Yup and so is the Oz-One frame......they are literally the same bikes lol

From FLF website:

13.6” slammed rear, 75.2º HA, 71º ST.
11.5? BB Height.

The OzOne is a Prody with the top tubes reworked.  Part of the reason I went ahead and passed on it, the Prody just never felt right to me and I still don't get moving the brakes from the SS to the CS on the Prody in the first place.


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#687 2019-01-11 11:44am

ebenk
Pro Member
From: San Antonio, Texas
Registered: 2011-09-20
Posts: 205
Bikes: 4

Re: 2019 Haro Master

Specs on these frames is the exact same as all the other Lineage models. 75Ht, 71St, 11.5bb, 13.6cs

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#688 2019-01-11 11:44am

made2drag
BMXer 4 Life
From: USA
Registered: 2012-03-15
Posts: 6861
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Re: 2019 Haro Master

oldsklHaro wrote:

made2drag wrote:

jriedmiller wrote:


Are the specs the same otherwise between the retro sport and master?  I ask because ST and HT angle can make a HUGE difference on frames of the same size as well.  Although I would expect the HT angle to be steeper on the master which would feel roomier with the bars pushed further forward, but possibly the ST angle to be more relaxed on the sport which would make it feel roomier as well.  BB height can also make a noticeable difference in cockpit comfort.

+1

also you'd have to have exactly the same amount of chain links (exact CS length) to be comparable.  I have noticed CS length makes the biggest difference...even more than a 1/4" of top tube.

2017 Master Specs: Taken from the 2017 Haro catalog

Head Angle   Seat Angle  Top Tube  Seat Tube  Chainstay  BB Height   Stand Over
  75°                    71°           20.75       10.80       13.75         11.5             21.5

2017 Sport Specs: Taken from the 2017 Haro catalog

Head Angle   Seat Angle  Top Tube  Seat Tube  Chainstay  BB Height   Stand Over
  75°                    71°           20.75       10.80       13.75         11.5             21.5

As you can see they are identical and I can tell you the 21" rides roomier than the 20.75". That's my opinion though, I'm 6'3" and 250 lbs so every fraction of an inch counts in my book tongue

Yes, I knew the geo was the same. 21 is a better choice for a tall guy, for sure.  Keep in mind, this 2019 even in the 21 will be heavier on the bottom due to more tubing and a bigger chainwheel.  I have no doubt the weight will be felt.  I wouldn't expect it to ride like a 21 inch 2018 Master or Sport.  Bitd the 89 bash wasn't as steep as the 88 master's HT angle, I don't think, I do remember them riding way different.

I cant remember if this 2019 has the same length CS as the 2018.


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#689 2019-01-11 11:45am

made2drag
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From: USA
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Re: 2019 Haro Master

ebenk wrote:

Specs on these frames is the exact same as all the other Lineage models. 75Ht, 71St, 11.5bb, 13.6cs

Ok, so 13.6 not 13.75?


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#690 2019-01-11 11:47am

made2drag
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Re: 2019 Haro Master

retrofreak wrote:

The OG frames were 19" and rode sweet imho

I measured 19.25 on a 88 Coral.


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#691 2019-01-11 12:11pm

ebenk
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From: San Antonio, Texas
Registered: 2011-09-20
Posts: 205
Bikes: 4

Re: 2019 Haro Master

sorry, 13.75cs

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#692 2019-01-11 1:23pm

retrofreak
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Registered: 2008-08-06
Posts: 492
Bikes: 30

Re: 2019 Haro Master

made2drag wrote:

retrofreak wrote:

The OG frames were 19" and rode sweet imho

I measured 19.25 on a 88 Coral.

My 89 is just a tad over 19” centre to centre, still they are smaller than the modern frames bar the rear end and ride great.
Personally I think we look way into sizes these days as we now have a choice.

Last edited by retrofreak (2019-01-11 1:25pm)

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#693 2019-01-11 2:47pm

pwh4130
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From: Hollywood, PA
Registered: 2008-11-05
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Re: 2019 Haro Master

The modern Haro CS of 13.75" is at the center of the dropout so they are about 13.5 slammed.


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#694 2019-01-12 5:02am

made2drag
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From: USA
Registered: 2012-03-15
Posts: 6861
Bikes: 8

Re: 2019 Haro Master

retrofreak wrote:

made2drag wrote:

retrofreak wrote:

The OG frames were 19" and rode sweet imho

I measured 19.25 on a 88 Coral.

My 89 is just a tad over 19” centre to centre, still they are smaller than the modern frames bar the rear end and ride great.
Personally I think we look way into sizes these days as we now have a choice.

I agree, remember the days where we got a new frame and it felt weird the first time or even first week we rode it?  We adjusted our bars and neck and changed forks til it felt better and then got used to it.  Only frame i just couldnt get used to was an 85 GT Pro Performer with the chopper rake.  Im glad it got stolen at the mall.  Lol.


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#695 2019-01-12 5:06am

made2drag
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From: USA
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Re: 2019 Haro Master

Oh, speaking of 80's.  Now that Gary Turner announced they are collaborating with GT Bicycles, im ready to see the retro's they have in store for 2019.  With the 87-89 PFT being the same frame, they could easily build a frame and drop 87,88,89 decals in the box and be up to date on the retro game.  Chrome was done 87-89, so it would be an ideal finish.   cool


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#696 2019-01-12 10:35am

Andy43
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Registered: 2013-11-03
Posts: 231

Re: 2019 Haro Master

I was skeptical about the 20.5, 20.75, and 21.0 differences in modern bikes.

You can FOR SURE tell the difference in the .25 increments.

I’m 5’11, 180# and I like the 20.5 for all around riding with a Lineage fork.  And 9.0 bars.

If you like doing bunny hop 360s, manuals, etc., it’s way easier to manipulate and flick around the smaller frame sizes.

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#697 2019-01-12 3:29pm

retrofreak
Pro Member
Registered: 2008-08-06
Posts: 492
Bikes: 30

Re: 2019 Haro Master

Andy43 wrote:

I was skeptical about the 20.5, 20.75, and 21.0 differences in modern bikes.

You can FOR SURE tell the difference in the .25 increments.

I’m 5’11, 180# and I like the 20.5 for all around riding with a Lineage fork.  And 9.0 bars.

If you like doing bunny hop 360s, manuals, etc., it’s way easier to manipulate and flick around the smaller frame sizes.

I’m the same height as you and have a 20.5” 2017 Lineage Master.
It’s as long is I’m prepared to ride for flatland as it starts to feel awkward for hang 5’s and tricks that envolve going over the headtube.
I personally prefer longer bikes for racing and ramps, but for Flat I’m used to anything around 19”.
Regardless when you ride you can adjust to anything, I just think we get caught up in specs, because the options are there.
When we were kids none of it actually mattered..if you needed reach you changed your stem or seat post etc.

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#698 2019-01-12 5:24pm

made2drag
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From: USA
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Re: 2019 Haro Master

I suppose if i had all 3 of the 2019 masters which means a 20.5, 20.75, and a 21 with exactly the same parts and exactly the same chain links and exactly the same bar and post adjustments....i might be able to feel something different i suppose.  The 21 would be a little harder to hang 5 and funky chicken and whiplash and boomerang and decade...stuff like that.  The 20.5 would be easier and quicker especially in the air.  The 20.75 might be the happy medium between long and standard.


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#699 2019-01-12 5:36pm

Andy43
Centurion Member
Registered: 2013-11-03
Posts: 231

Re: 2019 Haro Master

I have all the sizes in Lineage, all available to ride at the same time, same parts, etc; that’s how it’s easy to feel the difference.

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