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2018 Haro Flatland Master frames!!!!  RSS Feed

#51 2017-12-12 7:43am

FRESSTYLE FREEK
Pro Member(fantstik Spellr)
From: Fountain Valley, CA
Registered: 2007-06-28
Posts: 17786
Bikes: 71

Re: 2018 Haro Flatland Master frames!!!!

made2drag wrote:

FRESSTYLE FREEK wrote:

roll frank I do not need another DTT frame    frank I do not need another DTT frame  frank I do not need another DTT frame     frank I do not need another DTT frame   frank I do not need another DTT frame maybe if I say it enough times I can stop from placing/ making  a pre order payment.

Keep in mind this is a flat only frame.  It will be really tight for someone as tall as you are

I ride a Saint martin 10 TEN DTT 19 frame ,a Supercross Extention 20II DTT 19 , a Sick child Bada Bling 18.5 and  a Dragonfly Submachine alloy 19 for flat land all short frames.


Kindness is like Manure does You No Good unless You spread It around
bikes were made to be pedalled if we don't ride them they get sad:(!
YES I RIDE A PINK BIKE!! WANT TO MAKE SOME THING OUT OF IT!

2017 heavyweight build off entry submission thread link
http://bmxmuseum.com/forums/viewtopic.p … 0#p5846730

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#52 2017-12-12 7:48am

FRESSTYLE FREEK
Pro Member(fantstik Spellr)
From: Fountain Valley, CA
Registered: 2007-06-28
Posts: 17786
Bikes: 71

Re: 2018 Haro Flatland Master frames!!!!

jeffc43 wrote:

made2drag wrote:

FRESSTYLE FREEK wrote:

roll frank I do not need another DTT frame    frank I do not need another DTT frame  frank I do not need another DTT frame     frank I do not need another DTT frame   frank I do not need another DTT frame maybe if I say it enough times I can stop from placing/ making  a pre order payment.

Keep in mind this is a flat only frame.  It will be really tight for someone as tall as you are

Just my $.02...

I'm 6'5" and ride a 19.5"TT frame for flatland and 21.25" for everything else.  I don't think I can go below 19" without it being uncomfortably short but a tall person can definitely get used to shorter flatland frames too.  At my height, I wouldn't build a 19-19.5" Master to be an overall bike, but it definitely works as a flatland bike for me.
smile

yup you get used to felling like say a Praying Mantis on a short flatland frame. besides I have this one to build for a all around freestyle type bike. :big_smile
http://uploads.bmxmuseum.com/user-images/6905/dsc009315a2ffa4b2f.jpg


Kindness is like Manure does You No Good unless You spread It around
bikes were made to be pedalled if we don't ride them they get sad:(!
YES I RIDE A PINK BIKE!! WANT TO MAKE SOME THING OUT OF IT!

2017 heavyweight build off entry submission thread link
http://bmxmuseum.com/forums/viewtopic.p … 0#p5846730

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#53 2017-12-12 8:57am

pwh4130
Pro Member
From: Hollywood, PA
Registered: 2008-11-05
Posts: 1723
Bikes: 7
Website

Re: 2018 Haro Flatland Master frames!!!!

RDub2 wrote:

Although these have hardcore flatland geometry, there are ways to tweak the ride to make it more well-rounded and/or to fit a bigger rider. You can go with offset forks, longer stem, and you can pull the wheel back in the dropouts to give you a longer chainstay. It will still be a flatland bike but not quite a “circus” bike.

I think if you're "hardcore flatland" you would never consider making those changes.
It's cool they changed it up to hit another group of riders. There's are plenty of the older frames out there if it's not your cup of tea.


ride your bike until it breaks.

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#54 2017-12-12 9:38am

RDub2
Pro Member
From: NYC
Registered: 2017-10-14
Posts: 175

Re: 2018 Haro Flatland Master frames!!!!

"I think if you're "hardcore flatland" you would never consider making those changes."


Really?  These days, there does not seem to be a fixed definition of what constitutes a flatland bike.  Pros ride everything from full-on street bikes (Matthias) to hardcore flatland/"circus" bikes (Sauter).

Last edited by RDub2 (2017-12-12 9:38am)


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#55 2017-12-12 9:42am

made2drag
Pro Member
From: USA
Registered: 2012-03-15
Posts: 7261
Bikes: 8

Re: 2018 Haro Flatland Master frames!!!!

jeffc43 wrote:

made2drag wrote:

FRESSTYLE FREEK wrote:

roll frank I do not need another DTT frame    frank I do not need another DTT frame  frank I do not need another DTT frame     frank I do not need another DTT frame   frank I do not need another DTT frame maybe if I say it enough times I can stop from placing/ making  a pre order payment.

Keep in mind this is a flat only frame.  It will be really tight for someone as tall as you are

Just my $.02...

I'm 6'5" and ride a 19.5"TT frame for flatland and 21.25" for everything else.  I don't think I can go below 19" without it being uncomfortably short but a tall person can definitely get used to shorter flatland frames too.  At my height, I wouldn't build a 19-19.5" Master to be an overall bike, but it definitely works as a flatland bike for me.
smile

ok.  I was looking at the distance between the seat post clamp and headtube at level to ground perspective.  The top tubes will measure 19 or 19.5 but the actual distance your knees see, if you measure horizontally on a level plane, will be more like 15ish or less. But maybe im wrong.   Since he does old school flat, I was just pointing this out.  This one isn't like buying a 2017 Flatland frame...which looks easier to adapt to for various kinds of riding.


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#56 2017-12-12 9:46am

made2drag
Pro Member
From: USA
Registered: 2012-03-15
Posts: 7261
Bikes: 8

Re: 2018 Haro Flatland Master frames!!!!

pwh4130 wrote:

RDub2 wrote:

Although these have hardcore flatland geometry, there are ways to tweak the ride to make it more well-rounded and/or to fit a bigger rider. You can go with offset forks, longer stem, and you can pull the wheel back in the dropouts to give you a longer chainstay. It will still be a flatland bike but not quite a “circus” bike.

I think if you're "hardcore flatland" you would never consider making those changes.
It's cool they changed it up to hit another group of riders. There's are plenty of the older frames out there if it's not your cup of tea.

Agree.


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#57 2017-12-12 10:34am

Sane
Pro Member
From: DETROIT
Registered: 2013-06-02
Posts: 722
Bikes: 7
Website

Re: 2018 Haro Flatland Master frames!!!!

I could take one of those Masters, use a Primo Strand or Odyssey minimal offset fork, a set of Bonsai bars
and easily ride both flatland and street on it. Short stems don't bother me for street. I could use a Flatware
stem (and know other people who have) or even a Colony 35mm stem. The trick is getting the right size crank
with shorter frames / fork combos. So your feet aren't tripping up on the front wheel all the time. I'm having
that issue right now with my current frame. A set of 140 / 145 mm cranks will solve my problem.


I NEED 145mm (OR UNDER) CRANKS

[img]http://bmxmuseum.com/image/sane-sig15a70714e08_lg.jpg[/img]

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#58 2017-12-12 12:11pm

getmoney
Pro Member
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: 2008-12-02
Posts: 1697

Re: 2018 Haro Flatland Master frames!!!!

I'm holding out hope that someone at Haro will switch a handful of frames after welding just before paint and a few of us can get the size and color we were looking for.
I think I'll still order the shorter frame in the color I want, maybe it will be everything I never knew I needed.


Trying is the first step to failure

Skin on skin or it doesn't go in

Believe none of what you hear and only half of what you see

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#59 2017-12-12 12:46pm

crash test dumby
BMXer 4 Life
From: Riverview, MI
Registered: 2013-06-12
Posts: 6212
Bikes: 24

Re: 2018 Haro Flatland Master frames!!!!

Ok I've been reading this entire thread and I'm left with some questions for guys like made2drag and pwh4130 (because I've had lots of previous discussion with these 2).  I keep seeing this frame referred to as more "hardcore flatland" than the previous flatland Masters.  But to me, this geometry seems more appealing as an all arounder than the previous.  Now so far I only ride park, but I'd like to play atound with a bit more flatland and/or street oriented stuff.  My favorite park bikes so far have been a V1 Broadcaster and Amber Dorado.  The geometry of this new Master is closer to those bikes than the older ones and so to me seems more appealing as an all arounder.  To me it looks very similar to my favorite park frames (75 or steeper headtube, short chain stays and relatively low standover), but with the shorter top tube to make flatland more doable.

So am I missing something?  Like I said, never ridden any flatland or flatland bikes but I know what I like in my park bikes.  So this frame with 19.5 top tube seems very appealing but perhaps my lack of any flatland experience had me missing something about this frame that would hold it back for park?

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#60 2017-12-12 1:13pm

Sane
Pro Member
From: DETROIT
Registered: 2013-06-02
Posts: 722
Bikes: 7
Website

Re: 2018 Haro Flatland Master frames!!!!

getmoney wrote:

I'm holding out hope that someone at Haro will switch a handful of frames after welding just before paint and a few of us can get the size and color we were looking for.
I think I'll still order the shorter frame in the color I want, maybe it will be everything I never knew I needed.

Yeah, dude...I reallllllllllly wanted the black and chrome in 19" top tube when I saw it...
bummed me out that it was only 19.5". I always loved the black / chrome Masters and
wanted one right after I bought my '87 back in the day.


I NEED 145mm (OR UNDER) CRANKS

[img]http://bmxmuseum.com/image/sane-sig15a70714e08_lg.jpg[/img]

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#61 2017-12-12 1:22pm

Sane
Pro Member
From: DETROIT
Registered: 2013-06-02
Posts: 722
Bikes: 7
Website

Re: 2018 Haro Flatland Master frames!!!!

crash test dumby wrote:

Ok I've been reading this entire thread and I'm left with some questions for guys like made2drag and pwh4130 (because I've had lots of previous discussion with these 2).  I keep seeing this frame referred to as more "hardcore flatland" than the previous flatland Masters.  But to me, this geometry seems more appealing as an all arounder than the previous.  Now so far I only ride park, but I'd like to play atound with a bit more flatland and/or street oriented stuff.  My favorite park bikes so far have been a V1 Broadcaster and Amber Dorado.  The geometry of this new Master is closer to those bikes than the older ones and so to me seems more appealing as an all arounder.  To me it looks very similar to my favorite park frames (75 or steeper headtube, short chain stays and relatively low standover), but with the shorter top tube to make flatland more doable.

So am I missing something?  Like I said, never ridden any flatland or flatland bikes but I know what I like in my park bikes.  So this frame with 19.5 top tube seems very appealing but perhaps my lack of any flatland experience had me missing something about this frame that would hold it back for park?

You're spot on, man. Geometry is constantly going back and forth. Flatland frames were getting smaller and lighter...and smaller yet.
Then, in the last couple years, they started looking and handling more like street bikes. As, usual, people go with the flow and now
most new school flatlanders basically ride street bikes as flatland bikes. I could take that Master and easily use it for both. Top tubes and chainstays have gotten longer on flatland bikes..it puts it right in the ballpark of street frames. PLUS, the chainstay is 13" SLAMMED. If the wheel was brought back to 13.5", that's typical street length. Most street frames are 20 - 21" top tube..but 19.5 isn't that far off. Anyone can get used to anything.

The stand over height is lower...more like a flat bike...bike that really makes sense for street too, in my opinion. tailwhips are
way easier on a bike with a lower stand over...as well as a host of other tricks.

Most modern flat bikes are between 17.9 and 18.9 inches as far as top tube length...but they're getting longer in the flatland
arena again...

In my opinion, it's all personal preference. I think what proves that is the fact that we used to ride those super long rear ends back in the day for every style of riding...and somehow did it.

Check out these flat setups...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=guQKcPS9E9Y

Last edited by Sane (2017-12-12 1:25pm)


I NEED 145mm (OR UNDER) CRANKS

[img]http://bmxmuseum.com/image/sane-sig15a70714e08_lg.jpg[/img]

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#62 2017-12-12 1:23pm

made2drag
Pro Member
From: USA
Registered: 2012-03-15
Posts: 7261
Bikes: 8

Re: 2018 Haro Flatland Master frames!!!!

crash test dumby wrote:

Ok I've been reading this entire thread and I'm left with some questions for guys like made2drag and pwh4130 (because I've had lots of previous discussion with these 2).  I keep seeing this frame referred to as more "hardcore flatland" than the previous flatland Masters.  But to me, this geometry seems more appealing as an all arounder than the previous.  Now so far I only ride park, but I'd like to play atound with a bit more flatland and/or street oriented stuff.  My favorite park bikes so far have been a V1 Broadcaster and Amber Dorado.  The geometry of this new Master is closer to those bikes than the older ones and so to me seems more appealing as an all arounder.  To me it looks very similar to my favorite park frames (75 or steeper headtube, short chain stays and relatively low standover), but with the shorter top tube to make flatland more doable.

So am I missing something?  Like I said, never ridden any flatland or flatland bikes but I know what I like in my park bikes.  So this frame with 19.5 top tube seems very appealing but perhaps my lack of any flatland experience had me missing something about this frame that would hold it back for park?

Here's my take, but I may be wrong.  A really low standover makes the 19 or 19.5 ideal for NS flat because its compact, but might feel tight when comparing a 19 or 19.5 with a higher stand over.  The 2017 standover with the same tt length has a longer headtube to seat mast length and would feel longer.  The 20.5 Lineage Master with the higher standover with just the inch of extra tt would feel like a mile longer.

I would think the really short wheelbase and lack of legroom would hinder you on park, but help on flat.  IMO Brett's Flat geo was ideal for old school flat and this new one is ideal for the guys who do the really technical spin combo's.  Yea, you have matthias dandois that can rock a 21 but it think the majority of these guys rock this geo.


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#63 2017-12-12 2:26pm

made2drag
Pro Member
From: USA
Registered: 2012-03-15
Posts: 7261
Bikes: 8

Re: 2018 Haro Flatland Master frames!!!!

crash test dumby wrote:

Ok I've been reading this entire thread and I'm left with some questions for guys like made2drag and pwh4130 (because I've had lots of previous discussion with these 2).  I keep seeing this frame referred to as more "hardcore flatland" than the previous flatland Masters.  But to me, this geometry seems more appealing as an all arounder than the previous.  Now so far I only ride park, but I'd like to play atound with a bit more flatland and/or street oriented stuff.  My favorite park bikes so far have been a V1 Broadcaster and Amber Dorado.  The geometry of this new Master is closer to those bikes than the older ones and so to me seems more appealing as an all arounder.  To me it looks very similar to my favorite park frames (75 or steeper headtube, short chain stays and relatively low standover), but with the shorter top tube to make flatland more doable.

So am I missing something?  Like I said, never ridden any flatland or flatland bikes but I know what I like in my park bikes.  So this frame with 19.5 top tube seems very appealing but perhaps my lack of any flatland experience had me missing something about this frame that would hold it back for park?

Well, on second thought, seeing the standover is only an inch and half lower than your Broadcaster V1 and 1 1/4 inch shorter top tubes (that might be 1 3/4's in all actuality because of slope), it may be a good candidate to try out.  I say go for it and adjust with different parts til it feels how you want it.

But hey, who knows right?


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#64 2017-12-12 3:07pm

MACAW
Pro MemberI am NOT a DUDE or a BRO :)
From: Denver, CO
Registered: 2010-06-25
Posts: 2313

Re: 2018 Haro Flatland Master frames!!!!

For those of you getting one of these flat Masters are you going to use the new kneesavers with your frame?

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#65 2017-12-12 3:18pm

bhaverchuck
Pro Member
From: Kansas City, KS
Registered: 2008-03-16
Posts: 439
Bikes: 1

Re: 2018 Haro Flatland Master frames!!!!

I plan on using kneesavers on 2018 Master.

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#66 2017-12-12 3:50pm

pwh4130
Pro Member
From: Hollywood, PA
Registered: 2008-11-05
Posts: 1723
Bikes: 7
Website

Re: 2018 Haro Flatland Master frames!!!!

RDub2 wrote:

"I think if you're "hardcore flatland" you would never consider making those changes."


Really?  These days, there does not seem to be a fixed definition of what constitutes a flatland bike.  Pros ride everything from full-on street bikes (Matthias) to hardcore flatland/"circus" bikes (Sauter).

You just negated the idea of "hardcore flatland" geometry. Guys who ride flat a lot know what they like and will not change things as a band aid to correct frame geometry.


ride your bike until it breaks.

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#67 2017-12-12 4:01pm

pwh4130
Pro Member
From: Hollywood, PA
Registered: 2008-11-05
Posts: 1723
Bikes: 7
Website

Re: 2018 Haro Flatland Master frames!!!!

crash test dumby wrote:

Ok I've been reading this entire thread and I'm left with some questions for guys like made2drag and pwh4130 (because I've had lots of previous discussion with these 2).  I keep seeing this frame referred to as more "hardcore flatland" than the previous flatland Masters.  But to me, this geometry seems more appealing as an all arounder than the previous.  Now so far I only ride park, but I'd like to play atound with a bit more flatland and/or street oriented stuff.  My favorite park bikes so far have been a V1 Broadcaster and Amber Dorado.  The geometry of this new Master is closer to those bikes than the older ones and so to me seems more appealing as an all arounder.  To me it looks very similar to my favorite park frames (75 or steeper headtube, short chain stays and relatively low standover), but with the shorter top tube to make flatland more doable.

So am I missing something?  Like I said, never ridden any flatland or flatland bikes but I know what I like in my park bikes.  So this frame with 19.5 top tube seems very appealing but perhaps my lack of any flatland experience had me missing something about this frame that would hold it back for park?

This new geo is suited better for modern flatland riding than the geometry from 2016/17.

It really depends on what skatepark riding is to you. For me, it's big concrete and going as high and fast as I can. My park bike has what would be considered trail geometry so it's stable and balanced at high speeds and way up in the air.

If your idea of park is more tech, grinding low stuff and mini ramp type tricks, this frame would be super nimble and move around easily for you. I've always preferred my flatland bike for mini ramps.

In my experience, the shorter wheelbase doesn't track as well at high speeds. The short rear end and low stand over make the bike loopy and squirrely in the air. I did the original geometry to make it more versatile with an inch of chainstay length options. I also figured a more mid school geometry would fit the demographic this frame appealed to. I'm glad enough people are interested in a newer geometry to make it happen.

Months ago John sent me this new geometry and I said it was perfect for the way Yull rides. Guess I was right!  The 72 seat tube angle and lower standover gives him better footing on the back tire and keeps the seat out of the way. The 75 head tube is the standard now. The 13" chainstay will keep spins tight and the balance point more compact.


ride your bike until it breaks.

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#68 2017-12-12 4:06pm

pwh4130
Pro Member
From: Hollywood, PA
Registered: 2008-11-05
Posts: 1723
Bikes: 7
Website

Re: 2018 Haro Flatland Master frames!!!!

made2drag wrote:

jeffc43 wrote:

made2drag wrote:


Keep in mind this is a flat only frame.  It will be really tight for someone as tall as you are

Just my $.02...

I'm 6'5" and ride a 19.5"TT frame for flatland and 21.25" for everything else.  I don't think I can go below 19" without it being uncomfortably short but a tall person can definitely get used to shorter flatland frames too.  At my height, I wouldn't build a 19-19.5" Master to be an overall bike, but it definitely works as a flatland bike for me.
smile

ok.  I was looking at the distance between the seat post clamp and headtube at level to ground perspective.  The top tubes will measure 19 or 19.5 but the actual distance your knees see, if you measure horizontally on a level plane, will be more like 15ish or less. But maybe im wrong.   Since he does old school flat, I was just pointing this out.  This one isn't like buying a 2017 Flatland frame...which looks easier to adapt to for various kinds of riding.

You're getting into the realm of grown up bike geometry terms of effective top tube and cockpit lengths. I don't believe these have much to do with BMX bikes as those measurements are relevant if the rider is sitting on the saddle. That doesn't happen much with bmx and hardly at all with flatland.

Would be interesting to take one of these frames, measure up another inch and a half up the seat tube and then take a top tube measurement and see what the difference is.


ride your bike until it breaks.

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#69 2017-12-12 5:11pm

crash test dumby
BMXer 4 Life
From: Riverview, MI
Registered: 2013-06-12
Posts: 6212
Bikes: 24

Re: 2018 Haro Flatland Master frames!!!!

pwh4130 wrote:

crash test dumby wrote:

Ok I've been reading this entire thread and I'm left with some questions for guys like made2drag and pwh4130 (because I've had lots of previous discussion with these 2).  I keep seeing this frame referred to as more "hardcore flatland" than the previous flatland Masters.  But to me, this geometry seems more appealing as an all arounder than the previous.  Now so far I only ride park, but I'd like to play atound with a bit more flatland and/or street oriented stuff.  My favorite park bikes so far have been a V1 Broadcaster and Amber Dorado.  The geometry of this new Master is closer to those bikes than the older ones and so to me seems more appealing as an all arounder.  To me it looks very similar to my favorite park frames (75 or steeper headtube, short chain stays and relatively low standover), but with the shorter top tube to make flatland more doable.

So am I missing something?  Like I said, never ridden any flatland or flatland bikes but I know what I like in my park bikes.  So this frame with 19.5 top tube seems very appealing but perhaps my lack of any flatland experience had me missing something about this frame that would hold it back for park?

This new geo is suited better for modern flatland riding than the geometry from 2016/17.

It really depends on what skatepark riding is to you. For me, it's big concrete and going as high and fast as I can. My park bike has what would be considered trail geometry so it's stable and balanced at high speeds and way up in the air.

If your idea of park is more tech, grinding low stuff and mini ramp type tricks, this frame would be super nimble and move around easily for you. I've always preferred my flatland bike for mini ramps.

In my experience, the shorter wheelbase doesn't track as well at high speeds. The short rear end and low stand over make the bike loopy and squirrely in the air. I did the original geometry to make it more versatile with an inch of chainstay length options. I also figured a more mid school geometry would fit the demographic this frame appealed to. I'm glad enough people are interested in a newer geometry to make it happen.

Months ago John sent me this new geometry and I said it was perfect for the way Yull rides. Guess I was right!  The 72 seat tube angle and lower standover gives him better footing on the back tire and keeps the seat out of the way. The 75 head tube is the standard now. The 13" chainstay will keep spins tight and the balance point more compact.

Thank you Brett, very helpful.  While I'm  not really familiar with all the sub categories (mini ramp, very etc) I would guess my local parks would more so qualify as mini ramp.  I don't  have any concrete parks or bowls, not really big air stuff.  I've had a few frames with 13.0 chain stays and 75-75.5 head tubes and I'm pretty sure the stand over on my Dorado was 8.0 or less but I can't find that spec so I'm just guessing by the pics.  So basically I see geometry I know I like other than the seat tube angle and short top tube.  Sounds like something I'd  love to try.

At the end of the day though, I think my nostalgic attraction to these DTT frames would lose out to my love of American frames and the lower price point of a chrome S&M Dagger with 19.5 top tube.

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#70 2017-12-12 5:19pm

made2drag
Pro Member
From: USA
Registered: 2012-03-15
Posts: 7261
Bikes: 8

Re: 2018 Haro Flatland Master frames!!!!

http://bmxmuseum.com/image/img_1848-museum59775914bd.jpg


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#71 2017-12-12 5:21pm

made2drag
Pro Member
From: USA
Registered: 2012-03-15
Posts: 7261
Bikes: 8

Re: 2018 Haro Flatland Master frames!!!!

http://uploads.bmxmuseum.com/user-images/66775/yull5a2e9934b2.jpg


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#72 2017-12-12 5:30pm

pwh4130
Pro Member
From: Hollywood, PA
Registered: 2008-11-05
Posts: 1723
Bikes: 7
Website

Re: 2018 Haro Flatland Master frames!!!!

crash test dumby wrote:

pwh4130 wrote:

crash test dumby wrote:

Ok I've been reading this entire thread and I'm left with some questions for guys like made2drag and pwh4130 (because I've had lots of previous discussion with these 2).  I keep seeing this frame referred to as more "hardcore flatland" than the previous flatland Masters.  But to me, this geometry seems more appealing as an all arounder than the previous.  Now so far I only ride park, but I'd like to play atound with a bit more flatland and/or street oriented stuff.  My favorite park bikes so far have been a V1 Broadcaster and Amber Dorado.  The geometry of this new Master is closer to those bikes than the older ones and so to me seems more appealing as an all arounder.  To me it looks very similar to my favorite park frames (75 or steeper headtube, short chain stays and relatively low standover), but with the shorter top tube to make flatland more doable.

So am I missing something?  Like I said, never ridden any flatland or flatland bikes but I know what I like in my park bikes.  So this frame with 19.5 top tube seems very appealing but perhaps my lack of any flatland experience had me missing something about this frame that would hold it back for park?

This new geo is suited better for modern flatland riding than the geometry from 2016/17.

It really depends on what skatepark riding is to you. For me, it's big concrete and going as high and fast as I can. My park bike has what would be considered trail geometry so it's stable and balanced at high speeds and way up in the air.

If your idea of park is more tech, grinding low stuff and mini ramp type tricks, this frame would be super nimble and move around easily for you. I've always preferred my flatland bike for mini ramps.

In my experience, the shorter wheelbase doesn't track as well at high speeds. The short rear end and low stand over make the bike loopy and squirrely in the air. I did the original geometry to make it more versatile with an inch of chainstay length options. I also figured a more mid school geometry would fit the demographic this frame appealed to. I'm glad enough people are interested in a newer geometry to make it happen.

Months ago John sent me this new geometry and I said it was perfect for the way Yull rides. Guess I was right!  The 72 seat tube angle and lower standover gives him better footing on the back tire and keeps the seat out of the way. The 75 head tube is the standard now. The 13" chainstay will keep spins tight and the balance point more compact.

Thank you Brett, very helpful.  While I'm  not really familiar with all the sub categories (mini ramp, very etc) I would guess my local parks would more so qualify as mini ramp.  I don't  have any concrete parks or bowls, not really big air stuff.  I've had a few frames with 13.0 chain stays and 75-75.5 head tubes and I'm pretty sure the stand over on my Dorado was 8.0 or less but I can't find that spec so I'm just guessing by the pics.  So basically I see geometry I know I like other than the seat tube angle and short top tube.  Sounds like something I'd  love to try.

At the end of the day though, I think my nostalgic attraction to these DTT frames would lose out to my love of American frames and the lower price point of a chrome S&M Dagger with 19.5 top tube.

The Dagger is a good choice. As far as standover goes, I always look at the top weld of the seat tube/top tube junction. I draw a straight line across to the back wheel and see if it hits the rim, the top of the tire or wherever. The wheel size is always constant so you can get an idea of the feel of the frame without a number.  Ride what suits you.


ride your bike until it breaks.

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#73 2017-12-12 5:31pm

made2drag
Pro Member
From: USA
Registered: 2012-03-15
Posts: 7261
Bikes: 8

Re: 2018 Haro Flatland Master frames!!!!

pwh4130 wrote:

made2drag wrote:

jeffc43 wrote:


Just my $.02...

I'm 6'5" and ride a 19.5"TT frame for flatland and 21.25" for everything else.  I don't think I can go below 19" without it being uncomfortably short but a tall person can definitely get used to shorter flatland frames too.  At my height, I wouldn't build a 19-19.5" Master to be an overall bike, but it definitely works as a flatland bike for me.
smile

ok.  I was looking at the distance between the seat post clamp and headtube at level to ground perspective.  The top tubes will measure 19 or 19.5 but the actual distance your knees see, if you measure horizontally on a level plane, will be more like 15ish or less. But maybe im wrong.   Since he does old school flat, I was just pointing this out.  This one isn't like buying a 2017 Flatland frame...which looks easier to adapt to for various kinds of riding.

You're getting into the realm of grown up bike geometry terms of effective top tube and cockpit lengths. I don't believe these have much to do with BMX bikes as those measurements are relevant if the rider is sitting on the saddle. That doesn't happen much with bmx and hardly at all with flatland.

Would be interesting to take one of these frames, measure up another inch and a half up the seat tube and then take a top tube measurement and see what the difference is.

With a possible 18 " top tube if compared to a 19 with a 1.5 inch more standover and about the same seat post angle this would make the downtube length shorter too and possibly pull the wheel base in.  Now the front tire gets closer to the pedal and really short crank arms.  But yes, i see what you mean and agree


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#74 2017-12-12 6:40pm

D_Man
Pro Member
From: San Diego
Registered: 2014-12-01
Posts: 383
Bikes: 6

Re: 2018 Haro Flatland Master frames!!!!

Dang it. Of all the years, this is the one where they decide not to offer a frame only versions n with a 21” top tube?

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#75 2017-12-12 6:59pm

made2drag
Pro Member
From: USA
Registered: 2012-03-15
Posts: 7261
Bikes: 8

Re: 2018 Haro Flatland Master frames!!!!

D_Man wrote:

Dang it. Of all the years, this is the one where they decide not to offer a frame only versions n with a 21” top tube?

It wouldnt be on a Flatland frame anyway, a Lineage Master or Sport is a maybe for 2018 in 21". You can still buy a 21" in the blue or yellow 2017.  In fact, they are on sale for $239 now


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