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Old School BMX frames Vs. Current Generation frames?  RSS Feed

#1 2008-07-15 2:14pm

Texas Mike
Museum Newbie
From: San Antonio, Texas
Registered: 2008-07-14
Posts: 3
Website

Old School BMX frames Vs. Current Generation frames?

Alright this is my first post here, and after much looking around I do not see a devoted "Questions & Answers" sub forum so I'm hoping it's okay to ask this question here. I don't want to get flammed or anything, but the only dumb question is the one you don't ask.  Started off with a generic BMX bike that Montgomery Wards sold [Think it was called an Open Road or something], then in Dec 1988 my father bought me a green '87 Kuwahara that was promptly stolen about half a year later, though we got it back and my best friend ended up with it.  For awhile I was okay at freestyle but never in the league of "the greats" from back in the day. Flashfoward to about (4) nights ago:

I'm getting that old BMX bug, have my old Kuwahara back [which needs to be restored] along with having purchased a '81 Schwinn BMX racer online, and I'm interested in both "collecting" and "riding" at age 30, and even possibly competeing in races (at some point) just for the sake of doing it. Be nice to win something, but right now it feel good just to compete. My question is this:

What is the main difference in the frames of yesteryear and today?  What makes the newer frames better?  Personally, I don't like the looks of the new stuff at all.  Yes I've been out of the BMX scene for almost 20 years so I'm coming at this as a total noob.  I would really like to know however, as detailed as possible if anyone would care to school me.  Also, will the ABA allow anyone to actually ride/compete riding an old school BMX or does it have to be current gen technology? 

Right now I'm just rebuilding my endurance at BMXing and dusting off old skills that aren't totally gone, but are damn rusty.  THe questions above however, are like a splinter in my mind though, and no web searches for these answers have turned up anything.  I'm hoping this community can help me better understand what it what. 

Thanks! cool

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#2 2008-07-15 2:30pm

gaijin
Pro MemberResident Hutch Hater
From: Orlando, FL
Registered: 2007-04-24
Posts: 10789
Bikes: 19

Re: Old School BMX frames Vs. Current Generation frames?

Basically, the advantage with newer bikes is that advances in technology, metallurgy and geometry result in frames that are more agile, stronger and more comfortable (admittedly, this part is arguable) than OG frames.


avatar photo copyright 2012 asklite

Things I need:  Chrome MX-900s and Tech 3 (rear), 1st or 2nd gen finned Mathauser pads with original hardware.

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#3 2008-07-17 12:20pm

bmxnw
Member
From: Vancouver, WA
Registered: 2008-07-09
Posts: 50
Bikes: 1

Re: Old School BMX frames Vs. Current Generation frames?

I personally think the bike manufacturers for the most part reached their pinnacle in the late 80's early 90's. In the early 80's they figued out that cro-mo was the bomb. Then we saw a HUGE boom in production. Everything got stronger, lighter, all around better. Then the peak came. the point right before companys realized that with slightly less quality work, they could churn out more bikes therefore making more money.

I'm am looking at the frames of my 2 bikes, a 91 PFT and a 98 Interceptor, which frames are the same size just different shapes. I also noticed the welds. The PFT has welds that are nice an thick, you can tell they were done by hand as they are not perfect but thats ok. I know they are not going to break. On the other hand my 98 Int. has more consistant but thin welds. Looks like they were done with a 'bot.

I prefer the hand made stuff as opposed to machine build stuff. When it is hand made, you know that the person who made it loved what they do and that your bike is really 1 of a kind because no 2 hand made items can ever be the excatly the same.

Now I know that there are newer materials and now new makers emerging, and they might be better then the 80's stuff but that is arguable. If I was going to buy a new bike, I would get one from one of the up and comers on the market or someone who is dedicated to making good bikes dispite the times and trends.

When I see new bikes I don't see anything that makes me say, "Wow! That blows my old GT out the water!!" And I doubt I will. for a while anyways.


"I want to ride my bicycle. I want to ride my bike. I want to ride my bicycle. I want to ride it where I like."

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#4 2008-07-17 2:19pm

Thrash
Pro Member
From: Portland, OR
Registered: 2006-03-21
Posts: 2479
Bikes: 15
Website

Re: Old School BMX frames Vs. Current Generation frames?

bmxnw wrote:

I'm am looking at the frames of my 2 bikes, a 91 PFT and a 98 Interceptor,

but the interceptor is low end model and the PFT was top of the line. of course there will diffrences in the quality silly.


It's nice to be important but its more important to be nice.
current race rigs:
2012 Yess Pro xxl
2013 Chase 24 xl+

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#5 2008-07-17 9:33pm

Texas Mike
Museum Newbie
From: San Antonio, Texas
Registered: 2008-07-14
Posts: 3
Website

Re: Old School BMX frames Vs. Current Generation frames?

Thanks to all who have answered so far.  I mean it's hard not to figure that *new* technology (methods) wouldn't be better than old, but I've always been of a mindset, if it worked then, why not now?  I'm old school so I know that even if I end up with a modern bike, the bullk of what I do BMX wise is going to be of the old guard.  Thanks again.

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#6 2008-07-18 6:52am

gaijin
Pro MemberResident Hutch Hater
From: Orlando, FL
Registered: 2007-04-24
Posts: 10789
Bikes: 19

Re: Old School BMX frames Vs. Current Generation frames?

JMCs were hand welded and you'd be hard pressed to find smaller cleaner welds than those.  Robots only repeat the exact actions of the person who programs it.  If the welder the robot is mimicing welds like a first day Jr college welding class student, that's the kind of welding you'll get out of the robot.

I consider myself seriously old school, but I do recognize that SOME things are clearly better than the old ways.  Threadless headsets for instance.  They are lighter, stronger, stiffer and offer much better steering response than a quill stem will.  Canti brakes and 990s are clearly more capable of stopping you quickly than even the best MX1000 is.


avatar photo copyright 2012 asklite

Things I need:  Chrome MX-900s and Tech 3 (rear), 1st or 2nd gen finned Mathauser pads with original hardware.

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#7 2008-07-18 7:23am

hondo20
Museum Addict
From: >>>--Noleville--->
Registered: 2007-12-20
Posts: 1368
Bikes: 6

Re: Old School BMX frames Vs. Current Generation frames?

I love the old bikes myself but thats because it's what I rode. If there was a active track near me I would be tempted to pull out an old bike once and a while but why screw up a classic. A newer bike gives you the abilitty to go to your local bike shop and pick up parts. Old bmx parts are not always easy to find and they are expensive. 

I'm not a huge fan of carpet queens but i think that the age of the bike has to be taken into consideration.  Metal Fatigue is fact. the older bikes get the more brittle they become.  I'd race something new and cruise a classic.


Looking for =
Boss freestyle bars
Haro Master Pads White /Blue
Webco forks

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#8 2008-07-18 2:48pm

FU
Museum Addict
From: UBE
Registered: 2007-08-13
Posts: 1688

Re: Old School BMX frames Vs. Current Generation frames?

I think it has more to do with strategic butting of the frames, ovalizing tubes for strength, cutting off the excess metal. Evidently this Sanko tubing is supposed to be  stronger way to make frames.

I have both old and new bikes. While I like the old ones, I ride the new ones. Lighter, stronger(in0 some ways) and sleeker.  I love my haro supra, but with all those huge tubes and thick dropouts, it's so overbuilt. My older bikes seem to have a little flex going on. My mid school bikes are tanks(35-40 lbs.) and solid as hell. My two new haros feel pretty solid. If I was gonna jump off a roof I'd grab the supra. If i'm just hitting the trails my Forum or Nyquist are fine.

I was skeptical about new bikes. Especially after I got a Fit that was hi-ten. That thing wasn't real sturdy. But stick with 100% crmo and you'll be fine!


2 82 Kuwahara  ET(1kz) ,84 Kuwahara Lazer lite(st.),86 Haro Master, 87 GT Performer,88 Haro Sport,94 Haro Sport,95 Haro Shredder,97 Hoffman Condor,97 haro blammo, 98 Haro Blammo,99 Supra dlx, 01 Haro Mirra,04 Haro Mirra Pro,05  haro Sport, 05 Premium Team Mutt, 06 Nyquist Custom, 07 Haro Forum Pro,08 Premium Duo,09 Premium LowPez LT 09 low pez,10Premium 2017 Haro Sport 2017 Haro Zebra

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#9 2008-07-18 2:57pm

GColloton
Expert
From: Albany, NY
Registered: 2008-05-31
Posts: 726
Bikes: 4
Website

Re: Old School BMX frames Vs. Current Generation frames?

Check out KuwaharaBMX.com to see the new Kuwi's!


My 1983 Kuwahara Laser Lite KZ-83:

My 1986 Skyway Street Styler:

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#10 2008-07-18 2:58pm

GColloton
Expert
From: Albany, NY
Registered: 2008-05-31
Posts: 726
Bikes: 4
Website

Re: Old School BMX frames Vs. Current Generation frames?

This place has awesome prices too on some new stuff.  I just bought my son the Junior and its SICK!  It weighs 18lbs!  http://oldskoolcycles.com/Kuwahara2007.aspx


My 1983 Kuwahara Laser Lite KZ-83:

My 1986 Skyway Street Styler:

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#11 2008-07-23 10:29am

mustang1993
Expert
From: St. Charles, MO
Registered: 2006-08-26
Posts: 750
Bikes: 1

Re: Old School BMX frames Vs. Current Generation frames?

i ride all old school bikes and race them i have 3 elfs and a new felt pro xl. and my sons bike(7 months old)a nicro mini is so light its not funny and i have him a junior crusier already(elf). my felt pro is a tank but a good bike but nobody beats elf

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#12 2008-07-23 11:24am

jjvh66
Museum Addict
From: Dallas, TX
Registered: 2006-08-05
Posts: 1577
Bikes: 14

Re: Old School BMX frames Vs. Current Generation frames?

It's the Evolution of the Bike. They are stronger, better geo., longer, lighter, faster lol.

If the Ole' Skool style was just as good then they would still make them that way.
But unfortunately, It Ain't So.       sad I wish it were still 1978 sad

Get a good New Skool'er for your rider/racer, you'll be glad ya did.

Oh Yeah! Welcome Back.

Last edited by jjvh66 (2008-07-23 11:32am)


Panties aren't the best thing.......BUT they're next to tha best thang.

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#13 2008-07-23 12:01pm

chapel
Centurion Member
From: Salem, MA
Registered: 2008-07-15
Posts: 141
Bikes: 3
Website

Re: Old School BMX frames Vs. Current Generation frames?

My big question is, why do current bikes all use straight up seat posts instead of laybacks?
I just don't understand why I can't buy a brand new layback...

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#14 2008-07-23 12:52pm

wds
Pro Member
From: St. Paul, MN
Registered: 2007-09-20
Posts: 1682
Bikes: 13

Re: Old School BMX frames Vs. Current Generation frames?

A current bike is 1-2" longer in the front, no need for a layback.
Plus, you can't slam a layback - that's a big no-no for the kids today.
-Bill

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#15 2008-07-23 1:06pm

gaijin
Pro MemberResident Hutch Hater
From: Orlando, FL
Registered: 2007-04-24
Posts: 10789
Bikes: 19

Re: Old School BMX frames Vs. Current Generation frames?

The layback, aside from looking cool on some bikes (they look really stupid on a Redline or Pistol Pete) were a function of needing more legroom on a short front end.  Front ends are longer now, therefore a layback is just unneccesary.  If your NS frame doesn't have enough room for you, you can always buy one that does, unless of course you're 7' tall.


avatar photo copyright 2012 asklite

Things I need:  Chrome MX-900s and Tech 3 (rear), 1st or 2nd gen finned Mathauser pads with original hardware.

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#16 2008-07-23 1:56pm

FU
Museum Addict
From: UBE
Registered: 2007-08-13
Posts: 1688

Re: Old School BMX frames Vs. Current Generation frames?

Plus laid back posts bent like no one's business.


2 82 Kuwahara  ET(1kz) ,84 Kuwahara Lazer lite(st.),86 Haro Master, 87 GT Performer,88 Haro Sport,94 Haro Sport,95 Haro Shredder,97 Hoffman Condor,97 haro blammo, 98 Haro Blammo,99 Supra dlx, 01 Haro Mirra,04 Haro Mirra Pro,05  haro Sport, 05 Premium Team Mutt, 06 Nyquist Custom, 07 Haro Forum Pro,08 Premium Duo,09 Premium LowPez LT 09 low pez,10Premium 2017 Haro Sport 2017 Haro Zebra

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#17 2008-07-24 11:44am

chapel
Centurion Member
From: Salem, MA
Registered: 2008-07-15
Posts: 141
Bikes: 3
Website

Re: Old School BMX frames Vs. Current Generation frames?

I'm 6'3" I need all the room I can get.

I should probably ride a bike made after 1995...

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#18 2008-07-24 3:16pm

gaijin
Pro MemberResident Hutch Hater
From: Orlando, FL
Registered: 2007-04-24
Posts: 10789
Bikes: 19

Re: Old School BMX frames Vs. Current Generation frames?

sumthin with a 21.5" top tube.


avatar photo copyright 2012 asklite

Things I need:  Chrome MX-900s and Tech 3 (rear), 1st or 2nd gen finned Mathauser pads with original hardware.

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#19 2008-07-24 3:32pm

prolineII
Museum Addict
From: Queensland, Australia
Registered: 2007-09-20
Posts: 1261
Bikes: 4

Re: Old School BMX frames Vs. Current Generation frames?

cool thread.

i bought a 2003 redline cruiser thinking it would be nicer than my old 800p. it wasn't. no matter where i put the seat or bars it just didn't come right for me. well i'm back on the old proline frame and i just "feel at home". here's a pic of it with the layback to annoy gaijin LOL

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e86/nak302/2008_0702006.jpg

Last edited by prolineII (2008-07-24 3:33pm)

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#20 2008-07-24 3:56pm

gaijin
Pro MemberResident Hutch Hater
From: Orlando, FL
Registered: 2007-04-24
Posts: 10789
Bikes: 19

Re: Old School BMX frames Vs. Current Generation frames?

they look really stupid on a Redline

See?  Didn't I tell you? lol


avatar photo copyright 2012 asklite

Things I need:  Chrome MX-900s and Tech 3 (rear), 1st or 2nd gen finned Mathauser pads with original hardware.

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#21 2008-07-24 4:00pm

prolineII
Museum Addict
From: Queensland, Australia
Registered: 2007-09-20
Posts: 1261
Bikes: 4

Re: Old School BMX frames Vs. Current Generation frames?

gaijin wrote:

they look really stupid on a Redline

See?  Didn't I tell you? lol

LOL ...............but it rides nice with it cool
actually my son's 1990 700sl feels nice too..............without the layback.

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#22 2008-07-27 2:08am

polanco
Pro Member
From: Santo Domingo, DR
Registered: 2007-02-08
Posts: 5551
Bikes: 124
Website

Re: Old School BMX frames Vs. Current Generation frames?

like always,its a matter of preference and styles in the end,although it is a fact that bikes have benefited from the advances in technology,metallurgy,and industrial processes,BUT,in my case,there are some tricks that I just CAN'T do on a quamen,that I just flow through on a pro freestyle tour,and vice versa,so I ride both styles,one brakeless,bars back,cut,seat kinda low,small sprocket and gearing,36 hole rims,and the other I ride complete,gyro,big tall forward positioned bars,etc..

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#23 2008-07-27 3:45am

djd93306
Vet Pro
From: Bakersfield, CA
Registered: 2007-11-25
Posts: 3478
Bikes: 34

Re: Old School BMX frames Vs. Current Generation frames?

If you look at the newer frames they are beefier and have all kinds of interesting designed dropouts and chainstays that make them stiffer. The old threaded stems would twist and have to be straightened and the headsets would loosen up as you ride, now with threadless you never have to mess withem they do not come loose. What used to would have bent your frame and or twisted your stem and ended your race with newer technology you can pick your bike up and keep riding. The improvements in designs from 89-2000 were huge, you can see the differences. My favorite new school design from GT is the Box, you never have to adjust the wheel cause of the built in chaintensioners and the Box shape adds stiffness. They are extra beefy too so plenty strong. Just an example of newer technology.
http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh245/djd93306/2000%20GT%20Power%20Series/P10100092.jpg

Last edited by djd93306 (2008-07-27 3:59am)


Can you ever really have enough GT's?

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#24 2009-03-30 6:53am

previasc96
Museum Newbie
Registered: 2009-03-30
Posts: 5

Re: Old School BMX frames Vs. Current Generation frames?

I got this frame from a friend in exchange for some car parts :0)
http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j317/PreviaSC/DSC01757.jpg
http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j317/PreviaSC/DSC01758.jpg
http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j317/PreviaSC/DSC01760.jpg

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#25 2009-03-30 9:06am

gaijin
Pro MemberResident Hutch Hater
From: Orlando, FL
Registered: 2007-04-24
Posts: 10789
Bikes: 19

Re: Old School BMX frames Vs. Current Generation frames?

Yeah, Cook Bros. had built-in chain tensioners in 1982...


avatar photo copyright 2012 asklite

Things I need:  Chrome MX-900s and Tech 3 (rear), 1st or 2nd gen finned Mathauser pads with original hardware.

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