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'84 & '85 Redline RL20II Knowledge

#151 2020-10-06 3:45pm

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Re: '84 & '85 Redline RL20II Knowledge

cool

Last edited by 551slander (2020-10-06 3:49pm)


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#152 2020-10-06 3:50pm

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Re: '84 & '85 Redline RL20II Knowledge

This is Jason Kramer's 84 serial number 06815

https://s3.amazonaws.com/uploads.bmxmuseum.com/user-images/100869/89640425_1862883337179261_7005841891778363392_o5f7cf3f81f.jpg

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#153 2020-10-06 3:50pm

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Re: '84 & '85 Redline RL20II Knowledge

https://s3.amazonaws.com/uploads.bmxmuseum.com/user-images/100869/89601294_1863191577148437_5164756868463067136_o5f7cf4be59.jpg

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#154 2020-10-15 11:10pm

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Re: '84 & '85 Redline RL20II Knowledge

Looking at some of the old magazines, the May 1985 edition of BMX Action has a short article on P66 referring to the first 250 RL20IIs, specifically it notes:

"The first 250 RL-20-IIs will come fully painted in white, turquoise, and magenta, and from then on they'll come in the t-rick two-tone paint jobs like you see."

Interesting that the picture of the RL20II in the article (and the one advertised on P15
) has the chrome beginning from the wheel rim, rather than further up the triangle like the production version. Assume this was an early prototype. Has anyone seen this before?

Here's a link to the magazine and the article and ad below.

https://oldschoolmags.com/bmx_action.html

https://s3.amazonaws.com/uploads.bmxmuseum.com/user-images/277141/rl20ii-first-250---bmx-action-may-19855f89378082.png

https://s3.amazonaws.com/uploads.bmxmuseum.com/user-images/277141/first-rl20ii-ad---bmx-action-may-19855f89388f28.png

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#155 2020-10-15 11:41pm

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Re: '84 & '85 Redline RL20II Knowledge

A couple more images of an early RL20II with the chrome beginning from the wheel rim. These are from BMX Action July 1985.

Also, I'd suggest there were at least 335 1984 RL20IIs manufactured given the highest and lowest serial numbers noted in this post (RD06625 to RD06960).

Assuming they started the run at RD06600, then RD6849 would be the last of the solid colours. Any after that would have chrome, perhaps like the bikes in these early mags?

https://s3.amazonaws.com/uploads.bmxmuseum.com/user-images/277141/rlosborn-rl20ii-setup---bmx-action-july-19855f893f934d.png

https://s3.amazonaws.com/uploads.bmxmuseum.com/user-images/277141/rlosborne-radberry-rl20ii---bmx-action-july-19855f8940553f.jpg

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#156 2020-10-16 4:14am

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Re: '84 & '85 Redline RL20II Knowledge

I’ve noticed that .. I’ve been thinking of restoring a bike like that ...

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#157 2020-10-16 7:47am

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Re: '84 & '85 Redline RL20II Knowledge

I will have to check the sn on mine, pretty sure it is 0663x and it was all chrome


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#158 2020-10-17 7:58am

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Re: '84 & '85 Redline RL20II Knowledge

antedfitz wrote:

Also, I'd suggest there were at least 335 1984 RL20IIs manufactured given the highest and lowest serial numbers noted in this post (RD06625 to RD06960).

Assuming they started the run at RD06600, then RD6849 would be the last of the solid colours. Any after that would have chrome, perhaps like the bikes in these early mags?

So, I've wondered this as well. I've been on the lookout for RL-20 serials that intermingle with the current span of recorded RL-20-II serials. I have not found one.

Last edited by Yar (2020-10-17 8:04am)


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#159 2020-10-18 4:37pm

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Re: '84 & '85 Redline RL20II Knowledge

Im on the fence in regards to the chrome ones. Seems odd that Redline wouldnt go out of their way to advertise a chrome one while disclosing and advertising the colored ones. More over making a all chrome one 2 years before a all chrome version was even available. Though I suppose its possible they ran a few later serial 84s in chrome to test the waters.

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#160 2020-10-19 3:02pm

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Re: '84 & '85 Redline RL20II Knowledge

pepsicolla wrote:

Im on the fence in regards to the chrome ones. Seems odd that Redline wouldn't go out of their way to advertise a chrome one while disclosing and advertising the colored ones. More over making a all chrome one 2 years before a all chrome version was even available. Though I suppose its possible they ran a few later serial 84s in chrome to test the waters.

The time frame isn't as large as you might be suggesting. The pace was rather quick.

When RL went to ride for Redline in late 83 he was initially riding a PL-20. He changed the geometry to create the RL-20 for release early 84. During this onset the RL racing bars were sold as an after market add on.

RL started riding the painted RL-20-II in and around March 85. The RD 20-IIs were sold as a F/F. The freestyle bars were introduced May 85-ish around the same time as the introduction of the split chrome and paint jobs at industry show. The RE 85 split paint jobs started selling late 85.

We're talking a manner of six to eight months from all an all paint job model to the split paint jobs. Hence the limited run of 250 for the RD serials numbers. 

PS I might be off a month or two but what I am noting should jive if you thumb through the BMX Action and Freestylin magazines. Also note, I would suggest that bike release years were very much like cars. You can buy a 2021 car in late 2020.

Last edited by Yar (2020-10-19 3:10pm)


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#161 2020-10-19 5:04pm

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Re: '84 & '85 Redline RL20II Knowledge

I think thats all a very fair and reasonable assessment Yar. Im still a little skeptical for a few reasons. Foremost would be a chrome version not even being offered until the 86 year line up, let alone the original 250 as advertised and released . I very rarely if ever see a RE or RF in original all chrome let alone a RD. But like you said the time frame was close so I suppose there is a fair chance.
I have sen a few RD chrome and paint versions. I wonder if the all chrome RD sets are stripped early 85's??

Last edited by pepsicolla (2020-10-19 7:28pm)

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#162 2020-10-19 10:11pm

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Re: '84 & '85 Redline RL20II Knowledge

Yar wrote:

pepsicolla wrote:

Im on the fence in regards to the chrome ones. Seems odd that Redline wouldn't go out of their way to advertise a chrome one while disclosing and advertising the colored ones. More over making a all chrome one 2 years before a all chrome version was even available. Though I suppose its possible they ran a few later serial 84s in chrome to test the waters.

The time frame isn't as large as you might be suggesting. The pace was rather quick.

When RL went to ride for Redline in late 83 he was initially riding a PL-20. He changed the geometry to create the RL-20 for release early 84. During this onset the RL racing bars were sold as an after market add on.

RL started riding the painted RL-20-II in and around March 85. The RD 20-IIs were sold as a F/F. The freestyle bars were introduced May 85-ish around the same time as the introduction of the split chrome and paint jobs at industry show. The RE 85 split paint jobs started selling late 85.

We're talking a manner of six to eight months from all an all paint job model to the split paint jobs. Hence the limited run of 250 for the RD serials numbers. 

PS I might be off a month or two but what I am noting should jive if you thumb through the BMX Action and Freestylin magazines. Also note, I would suggest that bike release years were very much like cars. You can buy a 2021 car in late 2020.

Very much truth on the PS part especially, to generally speak.  I know my first 1986 Predator Freeform EX was made October 85.


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#163 2020-10-20 8:09am

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Re: '84 & '85 Redline RL20II Knowledge

pepsicolla wrote:

I think that's all a very fair and reasonable assessment Yar. Im still a little skeptical for a few reasons. Foremost would be a chrome version not even being offered until the 86 year line up, let alone the original 250 as advertised and released . I very rarely if ever see a RE or RF in original all chrome let alone a RD. But like you said the time frame was close so I suppose there is a fair chance.
I have sen a few RD chrome and paint versions. I wonder if the all chrome RD sets are stripped early 85's??

Lets separate the difference between model year and the actual year. RD is an 84 model and and RE is an 85 model. The split chrome/paint job was offered in the 85 models. As noted earlier, the all paint job RD model were offered in early to mid-85 calendar year until the split paint jobs were offered in late 85 calendar year with the 85/RE models. 

We can say the above as fact. Its an important distinction because the RD serial clearly identifies one of the original batch of 250. Understanding this provides clarity to the discussion and prevents any shenanigans in the collectors market by trying to confuse a potential buyer. Sure, they are all released in the 85 calendar year but the 84 RD models are in a class clearly by themselves.   

There are three RD model year serial numbered chrome F/F in the registry. Two of those have been documented in forums over the years as being chromed after market. the early one was chromed by C4 Labs. I lost track of which of the other two chrome RL-20-IIs was openly documented on a forum as chromed after market. The other one was a shoulder shrug when I asked but the paint job was defiantly newer with post RD/84 model stickers.

Conversely, I've also seen people paint, covering the chrome, RE/85 and later models to look like RD/84 models and try to pass them off as an 84...especially ones with an RE serial number. The RE had the same chain stays as the RD. 

I'm cool with skepticism. It's simply I've never once seen anyone prove that any RD 84 year model serial RL-20-II was chrome from factory -- other than here say. Is it possible? Sure. I think we're all waiting for the hard proof but right now there is only one chrome 20-II with zero providence to even suggest otherwise but that one had a newer paint job and stickers.

I will note there is an early 85 serial RE (003514) that is all paint with no chrome underneath that I can't explain. I give this one a bit of credence as an anomaly.

Also note, the 84 RD 20-II stickers were unique to that model as well. None of the factory sold RDs came with the 84 OEM RL-20 stickers ---- which you see a ton of nowadays --- to include on the all painted RD/RF models. All the RL-20 stickers on the RL-20-II were done aftermarket (I have a set on mine right now). The 85 RE and 86 RF models, sans the one mystery noted above, were all sold from the factory chrome underneath with the split paint job. The all painted RE/RF models we're all seeing were done after market. Which may cause some of the confusion.

There is also nothing to suggest that Redline sold from the factory an all chrome, with no paint, RL-20-II F/F at any time. Many people back in the day would strip the paint off their bike as the paint started to get badly chipped and then resticker them with OEM stickers bought from the LBS.

I've been keeping the RL-20-II registry for nearly ten years now and I wish I kept a better job documenting when some of the RD RL-20-IIs were chromed and then documenting where I picked that up from.

I have tried to document some of these events after watching a few of these framesets getting repainted, chromed, or later RE models getting passed off as late model RDs. I've also tried to document the original OEM OG paint job color. When an all paint RL-20-II pops up I generally ask for the serial to include. I've ran across a few people who claim it was an 84 but they had RE serials and all where chrome underneath.


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#164 2020-10-20 9:19am

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Re: '84 & '85 Redline RL20II Knowledge

https://s3.amazonaws.com/uploads.bmxmuseum.com/user-images/245122/screenshot_20201020-1111375f8f0c5f52.png
https://s3.amazonaws.com/uploads.bmxmuseum.com/user-images/245122/screenshot_20201020-1110555f8f0e0460.png
[


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#165 2020-10-20 9:57am

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Re: '84 & '85 Redline RL20II Knowledge

Stomper wrote:

Chrome RL-20-II photo posted.

PM sent! Interest is piqued.

I would respectfully suggest that my opinion still stands. I almost had my 20-II chromed in 86.

Last edited by Yar (2020-10-20 11:24am)


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#166 2020-10-20 10:11am

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Re: '84 & '85 Redline RL20II Knowledge

Stomper. Wasnt that once white?https://s3.amazonaws.com/uploads.bmxmuseum.com/user-images/100869/20170813_1504155990b244335f8f1a6619.jpg

Last edited by pepsicolla (2020-10-20 10:12am)

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#167 2020-10-20 11:31am

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Re: '84 & '85 Redline RL20II Knowledge

pepsicolla wrote:

Stomper. Wasnt that once white?https://s3.amazonaws.com/uploads.bmxmuseum.com/user-image … 1a6619.jpg

As far as I know. So either it got rechromed and then repainted white a long time ago. Or it was factory white over chrome


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#168 2020-10-20 12:03pm

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Re: '84 & '85 Redline RL20II Knowledge

I have 3 RD’s and none are chrome under the paint .

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#169 2020-11-03 2:22pm

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Re: '84 & '85 Redline RL20II Knowledge

redline 600 wrote:

I have 3 RD’s and none are chrome under the paint .

PM sent!


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#170 2020-11-03 2:37pm

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Re: '84 & '85 Redline RL20II Knowledge

I got into a very good PM conversation with Antedfitz about chrome RD 22s. The conversation spurred a memory.

The OEM RD forks are not drilled out from the factory for a recessed bolt. It was the old school long bolt for us. Most people later drilled out a larger hole to accommodate a recessed bolt. I did on mine.

However, it got me to thinking. If you have chrome RD fork please post a photo of the rear bolt hole with out the brake mounted. We should be seeing an OG small bolt hole filled with chrome or the chrome stripped out due to the drilling.

Thank you.

Last edited by Yar (2020-11-04 6:48am)


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#171 2020-11-04 6:47am

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Re: '84 & '85 Redline RL20II Knowledge

Great thinking YAR.

Last edited by pepsicolla (2020-11-04 6:53am)

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#172 2020-11-04 8:02am

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Re: '84 & '85 Redline RL20II Knowledge

pepsicolla wrote:

Great thinking YAR.

Aye, I can not recall if the later model Redline forks have a tiered recessed bolt hole (similar to the 85 Haro Master) or if it was a straight hole.

It would help out in this discussion if there is an OEM tiered bolt hole.

Last edited by Yar (2020-11-04 8:03am)


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#173 2020-11-04 8:48am

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Re: '84 & '85 Redline RL20II Knowledge

What I find telling is all the chrome RD serials have no decals. Yar my RF is the same as my RD as far as the hole. Sold all my 86 ones but to my knowledge they were the same.

Last edited by pepsicolla (2020-11-04 5:40pm)

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#174 2021-01-23 8:06am

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Re: '84 & '85 Redline RL20II Knowledge

Shiznitme wrote:

That's a cool ad you don't see posted all the time. I've got little mechanical tidbit about 84 pegs. There is no way again to prove for sure but there seems to be a big difference in pegs that were stock on 84 RD serials that were shipped abroad . These were larger Allen head peg. Members on here that own 84s not bought in USA all have Allen head pegs. These were screwed into threaded nibs which I still had in my forks when I received them from OZ. the pegs are long gone but there are good examples of these pegs I do have photos ill post.

Here's another little treat for you guys that always ask how many are out there? The answer I don't F--king know but I've comprised a list of knowns here they are:

Caleb(sold ).  RD 06625.    OG white
Didi.              RD 06648.    OG white
Flaketown      RD 06685.    OG Teal
( Didi's frd).   RD 06722.     ---------
Tortuga.        RD 06727.     ----------
                    RD 06744.     White. ( Facebook Redline post member :Thorsten )                     
Redline 600.  RD 06761.     OG white
(?)pjbaz.       RD 06762.      ---------
(Unknown).   RD 06782.     OG white  it was rusted out
4130Bigr.      RD 06803.     OG Teal
RL Paulie.      RD 06817.     OG white
Subwax.        RD 06821.     Refinished radberry SOLD
Knallkopp.     RD 06824.     ---------
Unclevian.     RD 06826.     OG white
Fanofbmx.     RD 06846.     ( chrome ) paint gone
Shiznitme.     RD 06847.    OG Teal
Lalo-Barrera. RD 06878.     --------
Yarl--me.      RD 06882.     ---------
Spector007.  RD 06897.     --------- radberry OG
551slander.   RD 06933.    --------- ( unconfirmed )
Maltido6969  RD 06960      OG radberry ( now yellow )

There is one major mystery on one of the full paint job teal 84s. Instead of RD serial it's RE .
# RE003514 to my knowledge not another one exists in full original paint FF with an actual 1985 serial.

This is best list I have to date. I'm sure there are others out there. Not all of these are built. Some are not capable of being built its just a list of frames I have seen picture IDs of or read about in forums. Not all of these have correct forks.

New addition member

Mclarcq  RD 06633     OG white ( repainted C4 unknown new colour )

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#175 2021-01-23 8:09am

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Re: '84 & '85 Redline RL20II Knowledge

Sorry folks I was sent another serial to add to the list

Redline600   RD 06680  OG white ( restored white )

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