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#26 2008-09-08 11:19pm

jays24
Pro Member
From: Sacramento, CA
Registered: 2007-12-02
Posts: 3529

Re: complete WHEEL BUILDING instructions

Thanks for the thread bro, I figured out what I was doing on the 4 cross lace wrong by reading this!  A big help indeed!

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#27 2008-09-25 8:25am

Kid_Carbine
Centurion Member
From: NSW Australia
Registered: 2008-06-09
Posts: 102
Bikes: 2

Re: complete WHEEL BUILDING instructions

An interesting method that I have not seen before.

I am also into Classic Vintage Lightweight bikes & build all my own wheels, but prefer to throw in a couple of extra twists to make it interesting, particularly for display purposes. I have what I call, the 'display position'

When finished, the valve should be at the top, pointing down. The brand name on the hub, if writen across the barrel should be uppermost & is read from behind the bike, or on the seat [not from the front] If the name is written around the hub, then it's read from the 'display side' [chainwheel side]. This brand name should be uppermost with the valve pointing directly at it.

The rim markings are usually written around the rim [not across, .... usually] so this should be readable from the display side as well, however it's normally stamped into the rim near the valve, so would not be seen when on display.
Perhaps placing the valve at the bottom & rotating the hub 180 degrees for BMX might be the go.

Old 27" classic bike rims usually have the makers sticker across the join in the rim which is opposite the valve, so can be seen from the display position.

I like asymetric spoking, so on the front wheel I have all the spokes that pass from the inside to the outside to radiate to the rear at the top [anti clockwise when viewed from the right side of the bike] & of course all the inside spokes go the other way.
The rear wheel is the reverse of this for technical reasons on bikes with gears, but matching the front on all single speeds.

Because my classic wheels have 32/40 spokes front & rear, they get laced as 3X front & 4X rear.

Wheelbuilding, ... it can be frustrating at first, but becomes fun after the first dozen pair or so.
Yes, my truing stand is at my left elbow beside this computer & has mounted in it, the front wheel of the third pair I have built up this week. Unfortunately the rim has been damaged in small ways during the last 50 years so truing it is a nightmare & spoke tension is all over the shop.
Only another four pair to go & then I'll build some BMX wheels for my Quicksilvers.


I'll keep building bikes till I die, & maybe a couple of days after that. Quicksilver
It's Aussie for "BMX"

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#28 2008-09-25 4:13pm

caleb_k31
BMXer 4 Life
From: Milwaukee, WI
Registered: 2006-04-07
Posts: 6884
Bikes: 15

Re: complete WHEEL BUILDING instructions

Kid sounds like you have built alot of wheels and really know what your doing..    for my show status i like the valve stem to be at the bottom and i like to be able to read the name on the hub ...    thats why i took my time to figure out where to start lacing so i would have hub decals up and valve stem/fancy air caps at the bottom for easy viewing along with the rim decal on these perticular rims witch is next to the valve stem hole...

other sets with different decal positioning on the hoop i have started different to have the ecals in the position i would like in conjunction with the hub decals...   but hey 4 sets of wheels and i can figure all that out i think its pretty good..

truing is a different story..   these rims in the instructional thread are not perfectly true but not to bad at all.. since they are for show it does not make a differance to me...   my peregrine 48's are almost perfect just truing by eye mounted to a frame (with plastic washers ofcorse, & not tightened down to ensure the frame stayed mint)...

my chrome HP 48's were built by me with all NOS parts straight out of the packages..  with the correct guage and length 182mm, 184mm  Asahi chrome plated spokes that would come on these wheels new...

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r183/caleb_K21/bike%20parts%20referance/bikeparts083.jpg


WILL NOT DEAL WITH LIST 619-bmx, Boyd, NickWG19, quadsticher, Djrothus, cgeorge715, bob70, sharkbite, Luke Sears ebay name bmxbrigade.

GT fork stander spring install - http://bmxmuseum.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=426565
PFT restoration thread - http://bmxmuseum.com/forums/viewtopic.p … 50&p=1
epoch headset, freestyle vs. race - http://bmxmuseum.com/forums/viewtopic.p … 7#p4233077

All the hub/hoop measuring info you will need along with spoke calculation info http://bmxmuseum.com/forums/viewtopic.p … 9#p5435389

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#29 2008-09-25 6:15pm

Kid_Carbine
Centurion Member
From: NSW Australia
Registered: 2008-06-09
Posts: 102
Bikes: 2

Re: complete WHEEL BUILDING instructions

caleb_k21 wrote:

Kid sounds like you have built alot of wheels and really know what your doing..

Thanks for the kind words caleb, but as for "really knowing what im doing" well, lets not get too carried away. LOL Lets just say that there have been a few wheels that came out absolutely perfect, ......................... on the third attempt. [or fourth]

Ahhh what the hell, it's all a learning curve. I did quite a few wheels back in the early 80's when I was into bikes & riding, but 'life' intervened & the bikes were all in storage for about 20 years.
I have retired now & I'm back at it. [yes, I'm old, I haven't been a 'Kid' for decades] My wheel building frenzy is to simply clean up this mess. I have rims & hubs & tyres & stuff all over the place so assembling them into wheels seems like a good way to reduce the clutter.

Your placement of the valve at the bottom is what I speculated in my post so obviously it's a good idea. The valve at the top places the label that is used to cover the rim join in older, larger diameter rims, at the bottom for viewing purposes.

That you have a handle on all of this with only 4 sets of wheel under your belt shows that you are a thinking man, unlike some I have met who just follow the instructions & make a serviceable wheel. As booring as batsh*t, but serviceable.

The plated spokes are, from a technical standpoint, the best of all, particularly the zinc plated 'rustless' variety although from a cosmetic viewpoint, rustless look terrible. Steel spokes are the strongest, & in my 27" wheels, the thinner the better, so 15/17/15 guage double butted are pretty much the standard for the good quality lightweights.
Stainless has a much lower fatigue life, & is much less resiliant, it has a much lower modus of elasticity & this makes a noticeable difference on a large diameter wheel. Stainless is OK if the spokes are always tight, but the resulting wheel is not as nice to ride.

In smaller wheels like we use in BMX, short & stiff is the go & stainless will serve OK there, but only as long as the spokes are kept 'tight'. Fatigue breaks resulting from under tensioned spokes just spoil the fun.

With the Asahi plated spokes, see if you can get a coating of beeswax or other suitable sealant onto them. The spokes are 'flash chromed' not triple plated & the chrome is porous, so moisture, even in the form of humidity, can actually reach the parent metal underneath & start the rusting process.
I also use Asahi plated spokes in a number of wheels & they are good stuff, but I am about to give up on this wheel beside me as it has too many deformations of the rim. With 32 spokes, the gap between the attachment points on a 27" rim is too wide to be able to effectively control the pressure. The rear, with 40 spokes, came out perfect. Anyway, I have another front rim that will need a big save due to corrosion but at least it's straight & round.

Good fortune to you with your wheels


I'll keep building bikes till I die, & maybe a couple of days after that. Quicksilver
It's Aussie for "BMX"

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#30 2008-09-25 6:34pm

Neil-Son
Pro MemberSuperSon
From: BMX museum
Registered: 2008-04-23
Posts: 12384
Website

Re: complete WHEEL BUILDING instructions

learning something new here everyday...nice write up mr.carbine:D

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#31 2008-09-25 11:24pm

DemonGT
Pro MemberDay-Glo Dynamo
From: Wisconsin
Registered: 2006-08-08
Posts: 5829
Bikes: 35
For Sale: 2

Re: complete WHEEL BUILDING instructions

so if you just copy another wheels thats already laced..and you go in a circle...it wont work cause when you get to the last few spokes they wont reach far enough to the nipples? neutral


WTB: 1992/1993/1994 GT Pro Freestyle Tour
1995 Performer black light F/F
1996 Performer red splatter F/F
1992 Yellow GT Performer
1992 Dyno Slammer

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#32 2008-09-26 4:36am

caleb_k31
BMXer 4 Life
From: Milwaukee, WI
Registered: 2006-04-07
Posts: 6884
Bikes: 15

Re: complete WHEEL BUILDING instructions

DemonGT wrote:

so if you just copy another wheels thats already laced..and you go in a circle...it wont work cause when you get to the last few spokes they wont reach far enough to the nipples? neutral

if your last few spokes dont reach the nipples its possiable that you have tightened the rest of the nipples to tight...    or it may be laced wrong....


WILL NOT DEAL WITH LIST 619-bmx, Boyd, NickWG19, quadsticher, Djrothus, cgeorge715, bob70, sharkbite, Luke Sears ebay name bmxbrigade.

GT fork stander spring install - http://bmxmuseum.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=426565
PFT restoration thread - http://bmxmuseum.com/forums/viewtopic.p … 50&p=1
epoch headset, freestyle vs. race - http://bmxmuseum.com/forums/viewtopic.p … 7#p4233077

All the hub/hoop measuring info you will need along with spoke calculation info http://bmxmuseum.com/forums/viewtopic.p … 9#p5435389

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#33 2008-09-26 1:50pm

Kid_Carbine
Centurion Member
From: NSW Australia
Registered: 2008-06-09
Posts: 102
Bikes: 2

Re: complete WHEEL BUILDING instructions

DemonGT wrote:

so if you just copy another wheels thats already laced..and you go in a circle...it wont work cause when you get to the last few spokes they wont reach far enough to the nipples? neutral

IF.... you use the correct length spoke, & IF .... you follow Caleb's advice & screw each nipple on about 2 or 3 turns then it WILL work out.
Just make sure that each nipple is actually pushed through the rim. They can hang up in the hole & cause the grief that you are experiencing.

Last edited by Kid_Carbine (2008-09-26 1:51pm)


I'll keep building bikes till I die, & maybe a couple of days after that. Quicksilver
It's Aussie for "BMX"

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#34 2008-10-05 6:45pm

maytag528
Pro Member
From: Miami, FL
Registered: 2008-07-19
Posts: 1168
Bikes: 47
For Sale: 2

Re: complete WHEEL BUILDING instructions

smile

Last edited by maytag528 (2010-05-19 2:20pm)


DG GRIPS !!! Black O-wings or Oakley B2s, SST Woody coaster rear Hub, 16" Ukai or Arayas for my pit bikes!
JMC 24" fork.

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#35 2008-10-25 8:54am

freedo
White Boy With An Afro
From: wilmington de
Registered: 2008-06-17
Posts: 9200
Bikes: 52

Re: complete WHEEL BUILDING instructions

what about on a rear hub like getting past the sprocket.


out with the new in with the old!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! smile
mongoose decade guru, hit me up with any questions you may have
R.I.P  Autumn Pasquale. May she rest in Peace!
Instagram! @freedo70

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#36 2008-10-25 9:54am

caleb_k31
BMXer 4 Life
From: Milwaukee, WI
Registered: 2006-04-07
Posts: 6884
Bikes: 15

Re: complete WHEEL BUILDING instructions

freedo wrote:

what about on a rear hub like getting past the sprocket.

you cant lace with the freewheel installed... infact if you have a hub that is not laced with a freewheel instaled it is very possiable the freewheel was stuck on and the previous owner cut all the spokes off..    its goto be pretty difficult to get that freewheel now..  some say use a strap wrench on the hub body then try and turn the frewheel, obviously you need the correct freewheel remover also..    if that fails, someone once said try to lace the entire other side of the wheel than use the whell for turning leverage (clamp your freewheel removal tool in a vice)....


WILL NOT DEAL WITH LIST 619-bmx, Boyd, NickWG19, quadsticher, Djrothus, cgeorge715, bob70, sharkbite, Luke Sears ebay name bmxbrigade.

GT fork stander spring install - http://bmxmuseum.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=426565
PFT restoration thread - http://bmxmuseum.com/forums/viewtopic.p … 50&p=1
epoch headset, freestyle vs. race - http://bmxmuseum.com/forums/viewtopic.p … 7#p4233077

All the hub/hoop measuring info you will need along with spoke calculation info http://bmxmuseum.com/forums/viewtopic.p … 9#p5435389

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#37 2008-10-25 10:26am

saylor
Museum Addict
From: Garland, TX
Registered: 2006-11-12
Posts: 2606
Bikes: 26
Website

Re: complete WHEEL BUILDING instructions

+1 lace the back wheel with 9 spokes on the non sprocket side, just so you can get leverage to get the freewheel off.

if the freewheel dont come off then, only other option I ever did was bust the freewheel hmm


saylor wrote:
damn bunch of end users. why do we even bother. so you can get email ?

ffs.

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#38 2008-10-25 10:49am

Kid_Carbine
Centurion Member
From: NSW Australia
Registered: 2008-06-09
Posts: 102
Bikes: 2

Re: complete WHEEL BUILDING instructions

caleb_k21 wrote:

freedo wrote:

what about on a rear hub like getting past the sprocket.

you cant lace with the freewheel installed... infact if you have a hub that is not laced with a freewheel instaled it is very possiable the freewheel was stuck on and the previous owner cut all the spokes off..    its goto be pretty difficult to get that freewheel now..  some say use a strap wrench on the hub body then try and turn the frewheel, obviously you need the correct freewheel remover also..    if that fails, someone once said try to lace the entire other side of the wheel than use the whell for turning leverage (clamp your freewheel removal tool in a vice)....

That sums it up completely.
If you can't remove the sprocket or freewheel, then the freewheel is about to be scrap, & if that's too hard, then both the hub & freewheel are scrap.

NEVER separate a rim from the hub with the freewheel in place unless the hub is to be discarded.


I'll keep building bikes till I die, & maybe a couple of days after that. Quicksilver
It's Aussie for "BMX"

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#39 2008-11-09 8:20pm

squirrelsmith
Pro MemberLoves Naked Animated Girls!
From: Seattle wa
Registered: 2008-05-28
Posts: 10844
Bikes: 2

Re: complete WHEEL BUILDING instructions

i can't wait to try to lace my own wheels, the last set i had built went like this; $50 on hubs, $40 on rims, and $140 to have them both laced! i wouldn't have done it but i managed to get 2 early gt sealed hubs and nos sun rhyno lite rims for pretty cheap so i gave in:(  p.s. why don't my smileys work anymore?

Last edited by squirrelsmith (2008-11-09 8:21pm)


Wtb  Cyclecraft Cruiser 24 With Og Crazy Paint Job

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#40 2009-01-04 6:28pm

Fatboy
"He's just Big Boned"
From: Seffner, FL
Registered: 2008-11-15
Posts: 1959
Bikes: 85
Website

Re: complete WHEEL BUILDING instructions

Okay, I'm 'bumping' just so I can find this again in 'my posts'.  Good info.


Stuff I want: 2000 24" DB Reactor Team frame ,  Voxom and Enigma stuff. Alliant / Radix stem and stuff.  JW and Stiffys stuff.  Cool late mid-school cruiser parts.

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#41 2009-01-04 6:49pm

caleb_k31
BMXer 4 Life
From: Milwaukee, WI
Registered: 2006-04-07
Posts: 6884
Bikes: 15

Re: complete WHEEL BUILDING instructions

here is some more i built, this set is something you rarely ever see Jad mega hubs 48 hole, radial laced to alex hoops one side of the rear is 2 cross.

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r183/caleb_K21/bike%20parts%20referance/JAD061.jpg
http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r183/caleb_K21/bike%20parts%20referance/JAD064.jpg

this set is 16" 28 hole in a 2 cross pattern, they were a bit tricky
http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r183/caleb_K21/bike%20parts%20referance/JAD099.jpg
http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r183/caleb_K21/bike%20parts%20referance/JAD100.jpg


WILL NOT DEAL WITH LIST 619-bmx, Boyd, NickWG19, quadsticher, Djrothus, cgeorge715, bob70, sharkbite, Luke Sears ebay name bmxbrigade.

GT fork stander spring install - http://bmxmuseum.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=426565
PFT restoration thread - http://bmxmuseum.com/forums/viewtopic.p … 50&p=1
epoch headset, freestyle vs. race - http://bmxmuseum.com/forums/viewtopic.p … 7#p4233077

All the hub/hoop measuring info you will need along with spoke calculation info http://bmxmuseum.com/forums/viewtopic.p … 9#p5435389

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#42 2009-02-23 10:26am

caleb_k31
BMXer 4 Life
From: Milwaukee, WI
Registered: 2006-04-07
Posts: 6884
Bikes: 15

Re: complete WHEEL BUILDING instructions

here is a set of pro class i just laced up..  these are in real nice shape only one side of the rear hoop has some nicks and scratches..  they spin fprever but need to be trued.. i may sell them im not sure yet

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r183/caleb_K21/4%20sale%207/scoresale6117.jpg
http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r183/caleb_K21/4%20sale%207/scoresale6116.jpg
http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r183/caleb_K21/4%20sale%207/scoresale6118.jpg

Last edited by caleb_k21 (2009-02-23 10:26am)


WILL NOT DEAL WITH LIST 619-bmx, Boyd, NickWG19, quadsticher, Djrothus, cgeorge715, bob70, sharkbite, Luke Sears ebay name bmxbrigade.

GT fork stander spring install - http://bmxmuseum.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=426565
PFT restoration thread - http://bmxmuseum.com/forums/viewtopic.p … 50&p=1
epoch headset, freestyle vs. race - http://bmxmuseum.com/forums/viewtopic.p … 7#p4233077

All the hub/hoop measuring info you will need along with spoke calculation info http://bmxmuseum.com/forums/viewtopic.p … 9#p5435389

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#43 2009-04-18 2:31pm

myone
BMXer 4 Life
From: S. Paterson, NJ
Registered: 2008-07-15
Posts: 7943
Bikes: 9

Re: complete WHEEL BUILDING instructions

You saved me today thanks for the help bro PEACE(MYONE)Home grown on the mongoose farm.


Everybody sing GOOOOO YANKEES !!!                      MAH!! COULD WE GET SOME MEATLOAF ??????????

Your gonna wear the shirt of the band your going to see??? DONT BE THAT GUY!!!!!!
R.I.P. Autmn Pasquale 12yrs. old you will not be forgotten. Murderd over BMX parts. UNFORGIVABLE.

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#44 2009-04-24 3:48pm

maximum85
!!!The Sales Man!!! "1000 CLUB"
From: MA
Registered: 2008-02-04
Posts: 6369
Bikes: 2

Re: complete WHEEL BUILDING instructions

by far one of THE best threads...thanks,it truly makes for simple wheel building. big_smile

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#45 2009-05-04 10:11am

Neil-Son
Pro MemberSuperSon
From: BMX museum
Registered: 2008-04-23
Posts: 12384
Website

Re: complete WHEEL BUILDING instructions

Does anyone have a pic of the tools needed besides the truing stand? Ive seen the tool used for tightening the nipples. Is there a special tool to screw on the nipples to the spokes?

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#46 2009-05-11 7:41am

caleb_k31
BMXer 4 Life
From: Milwaukee, WI
Registered: 2006-04-07
Posts: 6884
Bikes: 15

Re: complete WHEEL BUILDING instructions

here is the set i did last week,  NOS Z's  hubs were NOS but i had them powdered black.    194mm sokes and long nipples, you must use long nipples on Z hoops becaus ethey are so thick..   the pro class above used the same 194mm spokes.. 

these took me about 1 hour and are almost true just by eye,  i think this is my 11th set built.

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r183/caleb_K21/bike%20parts%20referance/kuwi022.jpg
http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r183/caleb_K21/bike%20parts%20referance/kuwi023.jpg
http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r183/caleb_K21/bike%20parts%20referance/kuwi024.jpg


WILL NOT DEAL WITH LIST 619-bmx, Boyd, NickWG19, quadsticher, Djrothus, cgeorge715, bob70, sharkbite, Luke Sears ebay name bmxbrigade.

GT fork stander spring install - http://bmxmuseum.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=426565
PFT restoration thread - http://bmxmuseum.com/forums/viewtopic.p … 50&p=1
epoch headset, freestyle vs. race - http://bmxmuseum.com/forums/viewtopic.p … 7#p4233077

All the hub/hoop measuring info you will need along with spoke calculation info http://bmxmuseum.com/forums/viewtopic.p … 9#p5435389

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#47 2009-05-11 5:44pm

DETHSMOKES
Formerly Oldschool
From: Eustis, FL
Registered: 2008-06-28
Posts: 530

Re: complete WHEEL BUILDING instructions

NICE!!  big_smile


DON'T BE A SLAYER HATER!!

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#48 2009-05-17 2:14pm

4mula1
Banned
From: Superior, CO
Registered: 2008-12-22
Posts: 252
Bikes: 6
Website

Re: complete WHEEL BUILDING instructions

Thanks for the help.  Now on to my third set.

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#49 2009-05-17 5:45pm

Draw
Pro MemberRev on the Redline
From: Alabama
Registered: 2008-10-09
Posts: 8825
Bikes: 2

Re: complete WHEEL BUILDING instructions

make this a sticky !!!!!


Light, Strong, Cheap ... Pick two

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#50 2009-05-17 9:34pm

Rick540
Centurion Member
From: Christiansburg, VA
Registered: 2009-03-26
Posts: 159
Bikes: 1

Re: complete WHEEL BUILDING instructions

Tuff Wheels 4 life.

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