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Need verification of or against authenticity of an early Elina LB seat  RSS Feed

#26 2012-12-12 9:48pm

markmc97225
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Re: Need verification of or against authenticity of an early Elina LB seat

vettefan wrote:

Perfect MarkMc, that red seat has every detail Identical to the 78 I just sold, the stampings, the front end of the rail system, If the guts are OG could you post a pic of then as well ? Lastly what is your opinion, legit or ? Thanks again for your help.

I wonder if anyone can verify possibly by advertisements from a early bmx magazine when the first Lightning bolt seats came out ? That would be a big help as well.

What are you looking for on the picture of the guts?

My opinion? My opinion is that early seats really didn't have holes, or fancy graphics. So, I'm suspect of a 5 78 stamped seat with holes, stampings, and lightning bolts. Those to me are 80+ entries on a 78 "manufactured" seat.  I will dig thru some mag downloads tonight. It's an opinion, not fact, let's be clear. I always hold back a bit, because in the crazy early days, stuff happened. It's why you have round top tube PK's and silly other variants on lots of early stuff.

I see Kashi seats in 1980 mags with holes.

Here is another known 1979 seat, belongs to my buddy. Different brand, but, from 79, maybe early 1980 100%.

https://z2rp6w.dm1.livefilestore.com/y1pvIEkN_Sl8aHour5jkXLFDBiu-rmWZcfnERKtJsfJbxUSbn16MUDApIR-dIroZPst7xxR2PkAsrG1nyvc0QFmkg-U-7oN7DFD/IMG_0136.JPG?psid=1


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#27 2012-12-12 11:45pm

se666
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Re: Need verification of or against authenticity of an early Elina LB seat

Just Got home...my early seat has no bolts or holes either.


Museum cruiser! NEED EARLY BMX PRODUCTS MONGOOSE FACTORY TEAM JERSEY...money paid to you!!! MITSUBISHI COMP II TIRES WITH BLACK TREAD and oldbmx jerseys...especially Factory team jerseys.

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#28 2012-12-13 3:30am

maximum85
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Re: Need verification of or against authenticity of an early Elina LB seat

one thing to remember is "Early" Elina seats were for road/track bikes and had the adjustabe nut and bolt for the rail tension,which is what Craig's has..also,Matix was the ORIGINAL manufacturer,then changed to Tahei,then Elina/Tahei...

Last edited by maximum85 (2012-12-13 3:38am)

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#29 2012-12-13 3:45am

maximum85
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Re: Need verification of or against authenticity of an early Elina LB seat

here is a track saddle from elina,i also had one WITHOUT the elina molded.
http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg67/fastcamaro80/022-1.jpg

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#30 2012-12-13 6:05am

ol phart
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Re: Need verification of or against authenticity of an early Elina LB seat

As replied to last night - I've never seen such an early example of a LB seat .... All the characteristic is there for the early Elina molds/tension adjust etc - but the holes and decoration throw me for a loop.

I rifled through all my zines and digital library and there's no ads or race coverage with anything concrete.

need to find another or a few others to get anything conclusive. But then Craig always has been one to unearth some serious artifact - still got them wienmann branded mx1000s, I'm still after o set of those after all these yrs !

Hope you/we get some info and somewhere on this quick.

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#31 2012-12-13 6:30am

vettefan
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From: Janesville, WI
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Re: Need verification of or against authenticity of an early Elina LB seat

Thanks to all who have responded. I cannot say if its real or not, every aspect looks legit for some known example of Elina, albeit a hybrid cross. My main question is this, If indeed this is a knockoff, where are the rest ? Show me one other one like it, and why would they make repops in yellow, not black blue or red ? Why would they make it with the early style high quality rail system, screen on the L bolts and logos, clear coat the bolts like all the legit 1980 models I have seen, and then Not reproduce the stampings undrneath to match ? All the suspected NOS BLACK ONES THAT I HAVE SEEN SELLING FOR THE PAST FIVE YEARS were stamped 1983 and with the elina and tahei scripts and logo. There's gotta be another one of these out there, unless it truly is a early made or prototype seat.

Last edited by vettefan (2012-12-13 6:35am)


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#32 2012-12-13 6:39am

Coco
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Re: Need verification of or against authenticity of an early Elina LB seat

vettefan wrote:

All the suspected NOS BLACK ONES THAT I HAVE SEEN SELLING FOR THE PAST FIVE YEARS were stamped 1983 and with the elina and tahei scripts and logo. There's gotta be another one of these out there, unless it truly is a early made or prototype seat.

Are you speaking of the lightning bolt seats here in your post or non lightning bolt?

Last edited by Coco (2012-12-13 6:47am)

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#33 2012-12-13 6:43am

JAMMJ
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Re: Need verification of or against authenticity of an early Elina LB seat

Seats aside, I absolutely love your floor Vette.

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#34 2012-12-13 2:23pm

HULK
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Re: Need verification of or against authenticity of an early Elina LB seat

Vett I can see an M right next to a hole I will take a pic now


NEED NOS/ mint black DB comp 2s

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#35 2012-12-13 2:27pm

HULK
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Re: Need verification of or against authenticity of an early Elina LB seat

Ok here's a pic and if u look closely there is a M with one of the holes thru it? Any1 know wat that is?
http://i1257.photobucket.com/albums/ii514/6chulk/951FB121-2C97-43D3-A86D-BF37C7660548-13900-000002A6E3799302.jpg


NEED NOS/ mint black DB comp 2s

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#36 2012-12-13 2:42pm

maximum85
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Re: Need verification of or against authenticity of an early Elina LB seat

hulk,that would be a very early dated one,78..the "M" would be for matix..read my above post..
why it would be yellow and such a early seat with lightning bolts is beyond me..

Last edited by maximum85 (2012-12-13 2:51pm)

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#37 2012-12-13 3:16pm

HULK
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Re: Need verification of or against authenticity of an early Elina LB seat

^^^^ that's wats getting me. But maybe this was the first seat matex  trailed the holes on for the Elina factory production take over ? Just a thought ??


NEED NOS/ mint black DB comp 2s

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#38 2012-12-13 3:51pm

markmc97225
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From: Beaverton, OR
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Re: Need verification of or against authenticity of an early Elina LB seat

Now, here's maybe a theory that isn't out there. It involves one company making product for many. For instance, RaceInc labeled their forks both as RI, SE/BMX Innovations and as Cycle Pro.

My recollection is that my 5 78 stamped seat without the Elina stamp came as a Cycle Pro. Cycle Pro did a bunch of stuff, but, never as near as I can tell made anything, just distributed it. Seats, seat clamps and posts, pads, bars, forks etc. Heck it's just a package. That stuff goes on today even, so, it's not a new concept, not even then.

So, take the info that that Matrix was making seats for other companies(per Max85). Could be one, or many companies. In 78/79 Cycle Pro was one of them, and probably others. They bought the stuff, stuck their branding on the package, and distributed and sold them. During this time, Elina wanted branded seats, and came to Matrix. They wanted a new seat, in colors with some minor mods, including having their name in the molding on the bottom and sides. Oh and for racing, let's put some holes in it for weight reduction. Matrix is ready to toss that 5 78 A mold, and they figure, heck, let's just use this one that was going to be tossed, and make Elina's changes, and make some money quick and easy. Maybe it was 1979 or 1980 now, but, Elina wanted their seats quick. If you ran Matrix, and a big company said they wanted 20,000 seats in 60 or 90 days, would you turn it down because you didn't have a mold, or, figure something out? (I'm just making things up, so, change the numbers, the data, etc. it's just fiction, but, plausible).

So, all that being said, there is zero evidence it's fake. And I've just made up a pretty good story where I could see it being real. Which is it? Well, I have no reason to doubt the seller. Zero.

Now, if I was building a 78/79 bike, would I buy the seat? No. It's not the right style with the holes and graphics. If I was building an 83/84 bike, would I? Well, no there, also. I don't want a 78 stamped seat on a 1983 bike.

Bottom line, I trust the seller, and the source. Not a seat I'd buy, but, I have zero proof it's fake, and no trust issues.


Whenever someone says, "I'm not book smart, but I'm street smart," all I hear is, "I'm not real smart, but I'm imaginary smart."

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#39 2012-12-13 4:09pm

HULK
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Re: Need verification of or against authenticity of an early Elina LB seat

Yeh that's wat I'm facing now I bought the seat for an 1982 model. Had the holes and thought it was an Elina but obveslously not right ?


NEED NOS/ mint black DB comp 2s

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#40 2012-12-13 4:46pm

markmc97225
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Re: Need verification of or against authenticity of an early Elina LB seat

HULK wrote:

Yeh that's wat I'm facing now I bought the seat for an 1982 model. Had the holes and thought it was an Elina but obveslously not right ?

I have no reason to doubt it's an Elina. It's stamped in the bottom, and etched in the sides.

I just think maybe this is a combo you don't see often.

About 1 in 100 DC MX1000 brakes is dated 1979. Maybe 1 in 500. The early stuff is out there, just not common.


Whenever someone says, "I'm not book smart, but I'm street smart," all I hear is, "I'm not real smart, but I'm imaginary smart."

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#41 2012-12-13 6:19pm

HULK
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Re: Need verification of or against authenticity of an early Elina LB seat

That's true. Well Elina it is. Would still like to see if any1s got an example of a seat like Craig's.


NEED NOS/ mint black DB comp 2s

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#42 2012-12-13 7:19pm

vettefan
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From: Janesville, WI
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Re: Need verification of or against authenticity of an early Elina LB seat

Where's Rod at with his three seats ?


"Is corn holing when you shove a corn on the cobb up someones anus or vagina?"... quote from Godzilla !!

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#43 2012-12-13 7:26pm

nikbsnjk
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Re: Need verification of or against authenticity of an early Elina LB seat

Bottom line is this. All the fakes that were and are selling on ebay are all dated 83.  Which to me says all the fakes were produced using the only mold available. And that mold is dated 83

Would also like to add that all the early Kuwis had taihei elina seats. The kuwi experts may know some of the different versions

Last edited by nikbsnjk (2012-12-13 7:39pm)


My statements of opinion are made in good faith, and believed that they are true.  Adequate research into the truthfulness of the statement and any involvement of Fair comment on matters of public interest. Never done with the intent to do harm or with reckless disregard for the truth, as in  cases to show that there is a well-founded public interest in the specific information and in the interest of the public.

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#44 2012-12-13 8:12pm

nikbsnjk
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Re: Need verification of or against authenticity of an early Elina LB seat

Check out the bmxa sept 1980 issue for the LB seat advertisment


My statements of opinion are made in good faith, and believed that they are true.  Adequate research into the truthfulness of the statement and any involvement of Fair comment on matters of public interest. Never done with the intent to do harm or with reckless disregard for the truth, as in  cases to show that there is a well-founded public interest in the specific information and in the interest of the public.

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#45 2014-02-10 7:45am

DevilsFan17
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From: Normal, Il.
Registered: 2013-07-07
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Re: Need verification of or against authenticity of an early Elina LB seat

I'm a skeptic .. I think the NOS seats on Ebay are fakes, but I can't prove it.  The main differences I have noticed is that there is a texture difference between what I think are authentic, and the ones I think are fake.  The one listed in the first picture of this thread seems to be like the one I currently own (stamped 80) .. rough bumpy texture on the entire top of the seat, while others I have seen have some areas of smoothness on the top.    I believe that one in the first picture of this thread is legit.  The coating around the lightning bolts is also present on the one I currently own.  A previous one I owned was stamped 82 and had a strip of smoothness on top.  I suppose there could have been changes made in design between 1980 and 1982, but I still skeptical.  I just find it odd that there are all these NOS seats available.  It's funny that they happen to come from countries that are known for making fakes .. coincidence .. nah.

Last edited by DevilsFan17 (2014-02-10 7:49am)

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#46 2014-02-10 12:16pm

farmboy
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Re: Need verification of or against authenticity of an early Elina LB seat

markmc97225 wrote:

Now, here's maybe a theory that isn't out there. It involves one company making product for many. For instance, RaceInc labeled their forks both as RI, SE/BMX Innovations and as Cycle Pro.

My recollection is that my 5 78 stamped seat without the Elina stamp came as a Cycle Pro. Cycle Pro did a bunch of stuff, but, never as near as I can tell made anything, just distributed it. Seats, seat clamps and posts, pads, bars, forks etc. Heck it's just a package. That stuff goes on today even, so, it's not a new concept, not even then.

So, take the info that that Matrix was making seats for other companies(per Max85). Could be one, or many companies. In 78/79 Cycle Pro was one of them, and probably others. They bought the stuff, stuck their branding on the package, and distributed and sold them. During this time, Elina wanted branded seats, and came to Matrix. They wanted a new seat, in colors with some minor mods, including having their name in the molding on the bottom and sides. Oh and for racing, let's put some holes in it for weight reduction. Matrix is ready to toss that 5 78 A mold, and they figure, heck, let's just use this one that was going to be tossed, and make Elina's changes, and make some money quick and easy. Maybe it was 1979 or 1980 now, but, Elina wanted their seats quick. If you ran Matrix, and a big company said they wanted 20,000 seats in 60 or 90 days, would you turn it down because you didn't have a mold, or, figure something out? (I'm just making things up, so, change the numbers, the data, etc. it's just fiction, but, plausible).

So, all that being said, there is zero evidence it's fake. And I've just made up a pretty good story where I could see it being real. Which is it? Well, I have no reason to doubt the seller. Zero.

Now, if I was building a 78/79 bike, would I buy the seat? No. It's not the right style with the holes and graphics. If I was building an 83/84 bike, would I? Well, no there, also. I don't want a 78 stamped seat on a 1983 bike.

Bottom line, I trust the seller, and the source. Not a seat I'd buy, but, I have zero proof it's fake, and no trust issues.

Mark, I'll add a wrinkle to your theory. Maybe Matrix, OR even some other large supplier/importer/?, had a supply of these seats already made and in stock and just had them screen printed to meet up with a fresh new demand.

Who knows? Anything along these lines is plausible.


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Movin' to the country, gonna eat a lot of peaches. On and on, 'til the break of dawn.

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