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m3brendan · 2012-10-25 7:43pm

Mmmm...mine appears to be 20". I measured my Dirtbike and it is the same length, but the serials are really different. Is my Mad Dog really a Dirtbike? It doesn't have a gusset, but I know some of the earlier DB's didn't come with one either. Anyone ever seen a 20" Dirtbike?

papalone13 · 2012-10-25 8:01pm

hmm, this appears to be the mystery at hand.

what we do know:
1289, S&M P = 20"
1289 S&M ST = 19.5

if an s&m ST (standard) is a 19.5, that an s&m P is either a mad dog pro or a dirtbike. my guess would be on dirtbike from what we've seen. also, Dannywhac said moeller said a s&m P is a dirtbike. my guess is that there is no such thing as a mad dog pro in 1989/1990. im thinkin that dirtbike took the place of a mad dog pro.

papalone13 · 2012-10-25 8:09pm

also what it looks like, is that the 11/90 serial numbers are:

1190xxxx S&MP = 19.5"
1190xxxx S&M XL= 20"

Last edited by papalone13 (2012-10-26 2:08pm)

cru jones 2 · 2012-10-25 8:24pm

my mad dog pro (1990) has a center to center of 19.5. If i remember correctly the md/db overlap the mad dogs were closer in style to the later db and holmes style and the og dirtbikes had more squared head tube and bb milling like cw/revcore with longer dropouts.

papalone13 · 2012-10-25 8:38pm

excellent cru, thanks man! so looks like weve got a lot of things settled.

the general consensus is that a 20" TT is a dirtbike. anything less than 20 is a mad dog.

(1988 model) smxxxx 18.5" TT , 19.5" TT (both sizes are mad dogs)
(June 1989) 689xxxx PSM -20" TT (Dirtbike)
(December 1989) 1289xxxx S&M ST= 19.5 TT (mad dog)
(December 1989) 1289xxxx S&M P = 20" TT (Dirtbike)
(November 1990) 1190xxxx S&M P= 19.5" TT (mad dog)
(November 1990) 1190xxxx S&M XL = 20" TT (Dirtbike)

keep up the good work boys!

Last edited by papalone13 (2012-10-25 8:40pm)

cru jones 2 · 2012-10-25 8:47pm

word!

Nbl 49a · 2012-10-25 8:56pm

Mike,

Awesome job putting this thread together. It was on my mind as well. I will contribute some information to this thread in the next couple of days.

m3brendan · 2012-10-25 9:26pm

papalone13 wrote:
excellent cru, thanks man! so looks like weve got a lot of things settled.

the general consensus is that a 20" TT is a dirtbike. anything less than 20 is a mad dog.

(1988 model) smxxxx 18.5" TT , 19.5" TT (both sizes are mad dogs)
(June 1989) 689xxxx PSM -20" TT (Dirtbike)
(December 1989) 1289xxxx S&M ST= 19.5 TT (mad dog)
(December 1989) 1289xxxx S&M P = 20" TT (Dirtbike)
(November 1990) 1190xxxx S&M P= 19.5" TT (mad dog)
(November 1990) 1190xxxx S&M XL = 20" TT (Dirtbike)

keep up the good work boys!

Yeah man- thanks for organizing the thread.

Unfortunately it appears that I bought a Dirtbike represented as a Mad Dog. Didn't see that one coming...I cold got played.

war_machine · 2012-10-25 11:05pm

2nd pic from top the green '88 is 19.5

war_machine · 2012-10-26 3:54am

opps sorry third pic, wasn't showing up on my phone

se666 · 2012-10-26 6:52am

m3brendan wrote:
papalone13 wrote:
excellent cru, thanks man! so looks like weve got a lot of things settled.

the general consensus is that a 20" TT is a dirtbike. anything less than 20 is a mad dog.

(1988 model) smxxxx 18.5" TT , 19.5" TT (both sizes are mad dogs)
(June 1989) 689xxxx PSM -20" TT (Dirtbike)
(December 1989) 1289xxxx S&M ST= 19.5 TT (mad dog)
(December 1989) 1289xxxx S&M P = 20" TT (Dirtbike)
(November 1990) 1190xxxx S&M P= 19.5" TT (mad dog)
(November 1990) 1190xxxx S&M XL = 20" TT (Dirtbike)

keep up the good work boys!
Yeah man- thanks for organizing the thread.

Unfortunately it appears that I bought a Dirtbike represented as a Mad Dog. Didn't see that one coming...I cold got played.

Fukin bullshit...I sold that bike as how I bought it. I never put it together. I paid Hboost the same as I sold it. He sold it to me as a Mad Dog last year and I figured he was a S&M expert as he sells alot of S&M stuff. I keep getting stuck with everyones bullshit when they want to cash out. Fuc this.

se666 · 2012-10-26 7:16am

Dont fukin talk about being "cold played" as I didnt fuk you. I sold you a frame I got from Hboost with the cook fork that went with it. I was told by him that it was a Mad Dog. Earlier in the tread you even say it has the similar serial number as your brothers mad dog. So dont say I fuked you with out first asking me! I didnt know this and Im tired on getting the short end of shit. What everyone wants to off their shit on me? Im sick of it be real and pm me before you call me something Im not.

hboost · 2012-10-26 7:19am

With all the variations and manufacturers its hard to tell whether you have a DirtBike or Mad Dog. For MK1 Dirt Bikes I've seen 3 manufacturers alone. I bought the Mad Dog I sold to Pat as a Mad Dog, and that's what it will be.

Dannywhac · 2012-10-26 7:31am

Yeah - lets not jump the gun - this is just a thread on getting a database together of TT lengths/serials

Things were chaotic back when these frames/forks were being made, B&E, CW/Revcore, GT and so on all made 'em. Sticker sets got put on all models, TT lengths are gonna vary if jigs varied from weld shop to weld shop. Maybe left over drops got used etc etc.

As an example of how shchizz switched round back then, take a look at these forks (thanks for the pic Mr Gosling):

You'd look at them and go they're CW/Revcore - well they're actually S&M forks that were manufactured by CW in around '89 - Chris M. didn't like the rake on' 'em so they went back to the S&M Fork.

Last edited by Dannywhac (2012-10-26 7:38am)

hboost · 2012-10-26 7:32am

Plus, now that I've gone thru my emails I've found the frame in question and it has an OG downtube decal. This is another reason why I've dumped all my S&Ms, all these fairly recent "experts" will swear they know some stuff when even Chris Moeller will tell you all you have is a Dirt Bike when its a Mad Dog really. He never liked anybody having the Mad Dog, that was his frame....that's why he went to the Dirt Bike in the first place. I dont give a sh1t what the tt length is, the og decals dont lie.

Dannywhac · 2012-10-26 7:51am

hboost wrote:
Plus, now that I've gone thru my emails I've found the frame in question and it has an OG downtube decal. This is another reason why I've dumped all my S&Ms, all these fairly recent "experts" will swear they know some stuff when even Chris Moeller will tell you all you have is a Dirt Bike when its a Mad Dog really. He never liked anybody having the Mad Dog, that was his frame....that's why he went to the Dirt Bike in the first place. I dont give a sh1t what the tt length is, the og decals dont lie.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v237/ … G_8760.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v237/ … G_8761.jpg

That's what I'm trying to say Joe - I don't think you get a standard 'one size fits all' back then - if the frame's sold back then with MD or DB decals, then it's an MD or DB respectively. It's only when they started putting the DB or HXL on them that you can say for definite what the frame is if it doesn't have it's original decals.

papalone13 · 2012-10-26 7:55am

Yeah like I said "the general consensus." not written in stone. Let's keep getting info on serial numbers and top tube lengths before Anyone gets upset.

hboost · 2012-10-26 8:02am

Im all for discussion and info gathering.....I'm not upset, but when names get thrown around and money gets involved there's always someone bound to get upset.

m3brendan · 2012-10-26 8:04am

I didn't meant to upset either Pat or Joe and apologize if I did so. When I said I got played I had forgotten that I had mentioned who I bought the frame from earlier in the thread thereby making it some type of public callout. I agree that dirty laundry needs to be aired through PMs before taken public on a thread. The decals on my frame don't seem OG to me since the bike was well ridden but the decals are perfect, but I'll take your word for it Joe. This ends here.

Sorry for the temporary distraction everyone...

hboost · 2012-10-26 8:12am

m3brendan wrote:
I didn't meant to upset either Pat or Joe and apologize if I did so. When I said I got played I had forgotten that I had mentioned who I bought the frame from earlier in the thread thereby making it some type of public callout. I agree that dirty laundry needs to be aired through PMs before taken public on a thread. The decals on my frame don't seem OG to me since the bike was well ridden but the decals are perfect, but I'll take your word for it Joe. This ends here.

Sorry for the temporary distraction everyone...

I didn't have reproductions out then, that was my first mad dog frame. Look at the green Holmes next to it, a well thrashed frame with nice decals still.

Dannywhac · 2012-10-26 8:14am

hboost wrote:
m3brendan wrote:
I didn't meant to upset either Pat or Joe and apologize if I did so. When I said I got played I had forgotten that I had mentioned who I bought the frame from earlier in the thread thereby making it some type of public callout. I agree that dirty laundry needs to be aired through PMs before taken public on a thread. The decals on my frame don't seem OG to me since the bike was well ridden but the decals are perfect, but I'll take your word for it Joe. This ends here.

Sorry for the temporary distraction everyone...
I didn't have reproductions out then, that was my first mad dog frame. Look at the green Holmes next to it, a well thrashed frame with nice decals still.

I can vouch for the Holmes frame as I now have it

m3brendan · 2012-10-26 8:37am

Dannywhac wrote:
hboost wrote:
m3brendan wrote:
I didn't meant to upset either Pat or Joe and apologize if I did so. When I said I got played I had forgotten that I had mentioned who I bought the frame from earlier in the thread thereby making it some type of public callout. I agree that dirty laundry needs to be aired through PMs before taken public on a thread. The decals on my frame don't seem OG to me since the bike was well ridden but the decals are perfect, but I'll take your word for it Joe. This ends here.

Sorry for the temporary distraction everyone...
I didn't have reproductions out then, that was my first mad dog frame. Look at the green Holmes next to it, a well thrashed frame with nice decals still.
I can vouch for the Holmes frame as I now have it

I love that frame. Joe had it for sale several times when I first joined the site and I passed on it because it wasn't "clean". I instantly regreted it when I saw Dannywhac's build...looks good.

Dannywhac · 2012-10-26 8:39am

m3brendan wrote:
Dannywhac wrote:
hboost wrote:

I didn't have reproductions out then, that was my first mad dog frame. Look at the green Holmes next to it, a well thrashed frame with nice decals still.
I can vouch for the Holmes frame as I now have it
I love that frame. Joe had it for sale several times when I first joined the site and I passed on it because it wasn't "clean". I instantly regreted it when I saw Dannywhac's build...looks good.

Cheers dude - love it as well. Rides real nice

wagonguy · 2012-10-26 9:11am

What is the provenance on the frame in question? Where did it come from before hboost bought it? Can it's history be traced back? Just because hboost didn't have repops when he had it, doesn't means someone else didn't. Or even used OG stickers.

"I bought it as a Mad Dog and that's what it will be" is one of the most arrogant things I've ever heard on this site.

hboost · 2012-10-26 9:31am

If Brendan wants to get into tracing the history of his frame he can PM me, I'll be glad to help. I'm not gonna start name dropping just to satisfy the curiosity of a small handful of folks. Plus, I've owned most of the frames/bikes pictured above and have seen all types of anomalies. Even now you can order a custom frame from S&M, the serials most of the time are the same as production frames unless you order a custom serial...I'm almost positive you could've done the same back then also.

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Post up your S&M MAD DOG info!

#26 2012-10-25 7:43pm

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#27 2012-10-25 8:01pm

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#28 2012-10-25 8:09pm

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#29 2012-10-25 8:24pm

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#30 2012-10-25 8:38pm

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#31 2012-10-25 8:47pm

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#32 2012-10-25 8:56pm

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#33 2012-10-25 9:26pm

Re: Post up your S&M MAD DOG info!

papalone13 wrote:

#34 2012-10-25 11:05pm

Re: Post up your S&M MAD DOG info!

#35 2012-10-26 3:54am

Re: Post up your S&M MAD DOG info!

#36 2012-10-26 6:52am

Re: Post up your S&M MAD DOG info!

m3brendan wrote:

papalone13 wrote:

#37 2012-10-26 7:16am

Re: Post up your S&M MAD DOG info!

#38 2012-10-26 7:19am

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#39 2012-10-26 7:31am

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#40 2012-10-26 7:32am

Re: Post up your S&M MAD DOG info!

#41 2012-10-26 7:51am

Re: Post up your S&M MAD DOG info!

hboost wrote:

#42 2012-10-26 7:55am

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#43 2012-10-26 8:02am

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#44 2012-10-26 8:04am

Re: Post up your S&M MAD DOG info!

#45 2012-10-26 8:12am

Re: Post up your S&M MAD DOG info!

m3brendan wrote:

#46 2012-10-26 8:14am

Re: Post up your S&M MAD DOG info!

hboost wrote:

m3brendan wrote:

#47 2012-10-26 8:37am

Re: Post up your S&M MAD DOG info!

Dannywhac wrote:

hboost wrote:

m3brendan wrote:

#48 2012-10-26 8:39am

Re: Post up your S&M MAD DOG info!

m3brendan wrote:

Dannywhac wrote:

hboost wrote:

#49 2012-10-26 9:11am

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#50 2012-10-26 9:31am

Re: Post up your S&M MAD DOG info!

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