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S&M fans, who's gonna buy the new 22" Holmes?

#2076 2013-12-31 6:40pm

teachbmxcharlie
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Re: S&M fans, who's gonna buy the new 22" Holmes?

dedmann wrote:

i agree. taking mine around the track was awesome! it was faster than i would have guessed lol ouch

You probably over-cleared a few things the first time around, too!

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#2077 2013-12-31 6:48pm

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Re: S&M fans, who's gonna buy the new 22" Holmes?

I have been riding my 22 everywhere. Just went on the street swarm on Sunday.

http://i1228.photobucket.com/albums/ee447/SEA_ELECTRIC/2013%20S%20and%20M%20Holmes%2022/8c53b4072ad929addd56cb4018a31ffe_zpse068c11b.jpg

Last edited by TXBONE (2013-12-31 6:49pm)


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#2078 2013-12-31 8:11pm

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Re: S&M fans, who's gonna buy the new 22" Holmes?

teachbmxcharlie wrote:

dedmann wrote:

i agree. taking mine around the track was awesome! it was faster than i would have guessed lol ouch

You probably over-cleared a few things the first time around, too!

i did..... blew out a knee. limping into the new years lol


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#2079 2013-12-31 11:54pm

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Re: S&M fans, who's gonna buy the new 22" Holmes?

teachbmxcharlie wrote:

This is taken directly from USA BMX's website:

OPEN WHEEL CLASS

• Good news for Cruiser riders: USA BMX/BMX Canada will now allow Cruisers to compete in the Mixed Open and X-Open classes at nationals. If a rider is racing in the cruiser class and is also competing in the Novice or Intermediate class that day, he may choose to race his 24” bike in the Mixed Open class. If he is racing in the Expert class or only planning to race Cruiser & Open that day, he will be placed in the (Expert) Open class.

2. Bicycles for competition in the Boy/Girl/Pro classes can
have no larger than a 20” nominal wheel diameter. 12”, 16”
& 18” bicycles are acceptable for competition.
3. Bicycles for competition in the Cruiser/Girl Cruiser can
have no smaller than a 24” nominal wheel diameter.

Did you read the article about GT and Day? They made a 22" that fit in the specs for the 20" class. It was a lower profile tire. I'll find the article and post it up.

http://cruiserrevolution.com/tag/mike-day/

Last edited by wburke17 (2014-01-01 12:02am)

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#2080 2014-01-01 8:07pm

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Re: S&M fans, who's gonna buy the new 22" Holmes?

franticbmx wrote:

Does anyone know if the Chrome 22" arc rims are available separately?

Nope currently one can only order black hoops, chrome are only available as wheelsets.

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#2081 2014-01-02 1:32pm

cmc
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Re: S&M fans, who's gonna buy the new 22" Holmes?

wburke17 wrote:

teachbmxcharlie wrote:

This is taken directly from USA BMX's website:

OPEN WHEEL CLASS

• Good news for Cruiser riders: USA BMX/BMX Canada will now allow Cruisers to compete in the Mixed Open and X-Open classes at nationals. If a rider is racing in the cruiser class and is also competing in the Novice or Intermediate class that day, he may choose to race his 24” bike in the Mixed Open class. If he is racing in the Expert class or only planning to race Cruiser & Open that day, he will be placed in the (Expert) Open class.

2. Bicycles for competition in the Boy/Girl/Pro classes can
have no larger than a 20” nominal wheel diameter. 12”, 16”
& 18” bicycles are acceptable for competition.
3. Bicycles for competition in the Cruiser/Girl Cruiser can
have no smaller than a 24” nominal wheel diameter.

Did you read the article about GT and Day? They made a 22" that fit in the specs for the 20" class. It was a lower profile tire. I'll find the article and post it up.

http://cruiserrevolution.com/tag/mike-day/

That article about Mike Day's bike was perplexing.  Why did he end up getting rims that required low profile tires to stay under 22.5" ?  Was that a mistake, or did he really want low profile tires?  (Is there something better about them, speed wise?)  Keeping an 11.5" bottom bracket height also seems unusual, if his goal was to make it feel like his 20" (a lot of of have learned through experiments with 22", 24" and 26" that the real issue in how pulling up and manualing feels is bb height relative to axle level, not bb's absolute height measured from the ground).   

Also, I'm guessing the reason the rule book said "nominally" 20" wheels was that very fat tall tires for regular rims might end up being taller than 20" (and most are).   

But with Mike Day's rims, there's no way you could say they are "nominally" 20" wheels, because there's no tire that you could put on them and they would be 20".   Just calling them OS20 doesn't make it so.

The Faction guys been racing 22"s against 20"s in the UK, right?
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Last edited by cmc (2014-01-02 1:39pm)


20", 22", 24", 26", and 700c !

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#2082 2014-01-02 2:07pm

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Re: S&M fans, who's gonna buy the new 22" Holmes?

Mike Day missed a great opportunity. He opted to go for the biggest diameter and still be legal in the 20" class. If he would have gone with a proper 22" he could've revolutionized supercross and Olympic level racing. I think the speed and handling combination possible at 22" is the future for that level. Would like to see an Olympic track with a 20 vs 22 comparison.


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#2083 2014-01-02 4:46pm

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Re: S&M fans, who's gonna buy the new 22" Holmes?

JTinNC wrote:

. . .  Would like to see an Olympic track with a 20 vs 22 comparison.

yeah for sure !   

i'd be interested to know how pros' times compare when they're riding 20" vs. 24".  not sure i've ever seen that really documented well....

Last edited by cmc (2014-01-02 4:56pm)


20", 22", 24", 26", and 700c !

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#2084 2014-01-02 5:07pm

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Re: S&M fans, who's gonna buy the new 22" Holmes?

JTinNC wrote:

Mike Day missed a great opportunity. He opted to go for the biggest diameter and still be legal in the 20" class. If he would have gone with a proper 22" he could've revolutionized supercross and Olympic level racing. I think the speed and handling combination possible at 22" is the future for that level. Would like to see an Olympic track with a 20 vs 22 comparison.

who would he have raced and in what class? There is no current class for the 22 inch wheels we are all riding, to my knowledge.


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#2085 2014-01-02 5:16pm

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Re: S&M fans, who's gonna buy the new 22" Holmes?

pnj wrote:

JTinNC wrote:

Mike Day missed a great opportunity. He opted to go for the biggest diameter and still be legal in the 20" class. If he would have gone with a proper 22" he could've revolutionized supercross and Olympic level racing. I think the speed and handling combination possible at 22" is the future for that level. Would like to see an Olympic track with a 20 vs 22 comparison.

who would he have raced and in what class? There is no current class for the 22 inch wheels we are all riding, to my knowledge.

I just (roughly) measured my inflated Faction F22 tire at what looks to be a hair under 22.5".  An uninflated Meghna 22" tire appears to be almost exactly 22" diameter.

Something must be wrong in that BMX Plus! article.  I don't understand why the rulebook would say a "nominally" 20" wheel could be up to 22.5" in diameter. That does not make sense.  hmm


20", 22", 24", 26", and 700c !

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#2086 2014-01-02 5:31pm

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Re: S&M fans, who's gonna buy the new 22" Holmes?

pnj wrote:

JTinNC wrote:

Mike Day missed a great opportunity. He opted to go for the biggest diameter and still be legal in the 20" class. If he would have gone with a proper 22" he could've revolutionized supercross and Olympic level racing. I think the speed and handling combination possible at 22" is the future for that level. Would like to see an Olympic track with a 20 vs 22 comparison.

who would he have raced and in what class? There is no current class for the 22 inch wheels we are all riding, to my knowledge.

I think it would start out as a time trial bike to demonstrate the speed advantage at that size instead of the current 20. I think it would be entirely feasible to switch supercross over to the 22 standard and still keep the 20 for smaller tracks. Kind of like the size and performance difference in automotive race classes, say Nationwide vs. Sprint cup cars.


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#2087 2014-01-02 6:40pm

teachbmxcharlie
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Re: S&M fans, who's gonna buy the new 22" Holmes?

cmc wrote:

pnj wrote:

JTinNC wrote:

Mike Day missed a great opportunity. He opted to go for the biggest diameter and still be legal in the 20" class. If he would have gone with a proper 22" he could've revolutionized supercross and Olympic level racing. I think the speed and handling combination possible at 22" is the future for that level. Would like to see an Olympic track with a 20 vs 22 comparison.

who would he have raced and in what class? There is no current class for the 22 inch wheels we are all riding, to my knowledge.

I just (roughly) measured my inflated Faction F22 tire at what looks to be a hair under 22.5".  An uninflated Meghna 22" tire appears to be almost exactly 22" diameter.

Something must be wrong in that BMX Plus! article.  I don't understand why the rulebook would say a "nominally" 20" wheel could be up to 22.5" in diameter. That does not make sense.  hmm

It's remarkable how close the 22s are to the nominal 20" regulation. When my home track was running NBL, they were very accommodating with the 22". Once USA BMX came in....

The 22" makes so much more sense as the bike for riders over 15 years of age. It fits the older teens and larger riders better, is more stable and has more top-end speed than the 20".. Why USA BMX and the UCI continues to ignore the size  is baffling. What is the worst-case scenario in allowing the 22" to be raced in class?

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#2088 2014-01-02 6:41pm

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Re: S&M fans, who's gonna buy the new 22" Holmes?

They actually go of what is printed on the sidewall. So I guess you could just get some 22 inch tires, printed with 20" on them and be good. ??

I had an email convo about this with one of the heads of usa bmx racing(NBL?). I'll see if I can pull the old emails up in a day or so and copy/paste 'em here.


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#2089 2014-01-02 6:44pm

teachbmxcharlie
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Re: S&M fans, who's gonna buy the new 22" Holmes?

pnj wrote:

They actually go of what is printed on the sidewall. So I guess you could just get some 22 inch tires, printed with 20" on them and be good. ??

I had an email convo about this with one of the heads of usa bmx racing(NBL?). I'll see if I can pull the old emails up in a day or so and copy/paste 'em here.

I had a back and forth with USA and they assured me that the 22" wheel would be specifically addressed in the 2013 rule book--never happened. More of the same for 2014, I'd assume.

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#2090 2014-01-02 6:49pm

teachbmxcharlie
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Re: S&M fans, who's gonna buy the new 22" Holmes?

I've never seen calipers at any track I've ever been to that would be used to measure the diameter of the wheel with inflated tire. I'm going to race class in the Spring and bring my 22" to see what the result is. Everyone that I'd race on the local scene was OK with it when I brought it up in the fall. Never had an issue or protest when I raced it as a cruiser back when the track was NBL. Most people don't even realize that it's bigger than a 20" when they first see it. They know somethings different, but don't figure it out until I tell them.

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#2091 2014-01-02 7:19pm

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Re: S&M fans, who's gonna buy the new 22" Holmes?

From my taking with the low profile was to make USAbmx and the olympic committee to rethink their policies and to rattle their cages with this new alien sized tire and rim combo. I'm all for pushing the envelope or authority, and who better then one of the biggest names and brands  to do so. Maybe it will spark some talk amongst the governing bodies to change or at least be open to putting the 22" in one class or the other or maybe even have it's own class?
Maybe if some other brands go in on it they wouldn't have much choice but to recognize 22's

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