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22.2mm seatpost too small to fit old school frames.....22.6mm???

#51 2013-06-23 10:28pm

hendrikBMX
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Re: 22.2mm seatpost too small to fit old school frames.....22.6mm???

I have/had access to a old bicycle shop storeroom and sold most of the parts to fellow members and at the same time kept the good stuff for myself. I did see there is on one shelf quite a few of the Elina U/L seats in NOS condition and noticed the post is 22.2 and each one comes standard with one of those shim tubes.

You guys have me worried now. I used on most of my bikes Shimano DX seatpost. Most of them went in easy but didn't have such a big play on the shaft as some of you. Maybe 1mm.
I think I will have to inspect over the weekend and check what my frame do w.r.t this. What cracks will form due to this problem indicating that it was done incorrectly by a previous owner? Vertical or horizontal cracks?
I have a hutch frame that has a small vertical crack extending from the keyhole are downwards by + - 2 to 3 mm. Think this could have been caused but this? Currently running a shimano DX post.

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#52 2013-06-24 4:54am

hendrikBMX
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Re: 22.2mm seatpost too small to fit old school frames.....22.6mm???

I just now cut up a coke can to see if I can't make temporary shims to test tonight. You guys that used this method, does it make a difference?
The metal feels and looks so thin.

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#53 2013-06-24 10:32am

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Re: 22.2mm seatpost too small to fit old school frames.....22.6mm???

photobucket   hmm

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#54 2013-06-24 10:51am

Axel10
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Re: 22.2mm seatpost too small to fit old school frames.....22.6mm???

I looked for information on 22.6 seatposts a few weeks back to no avail. And now I run into this one tongue

Anyway, I recently sold a 22.6 layback that was pulled off a early 80s Hutch Expert

http://bmxmuseum.com/forsale/90991#.UciF7D771gs

Last edited by Axel10 (2013-06-24 10:52am)


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#55 2013-06-24 11:10am

Legendofjd3
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Re: 22.2mm seatpost too small to fit old school frames.....22.6mm???

Ebay. Cheap

http://i1353.photobucket.com/albums/q661/Smurphy301/General%20stuff/Picture3_zps92ed36e7.jpg


Titanium

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#56 2013-06-24 1:30pm

Coco
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Re: 22.2mm seatpost too small to fit old school frames.....22.6mm???

hendrikBMX wrote:

I have/had access to a old bicycle shop storeroom and sold most of the parts to fellow members and at the same time kept the good stuff for myself. I did see there is on one shelf quite a few of the Elina U/L seats in NOS condition and noticed the post is 22.2 and each one comes standard with one of those shim tubes.

You guys have me worried now. I used on most of my bikes Shimano DX seatpost. Most of them went in easy but didn't have such a big play on the shaft as some of you. Maybe 1mm.
I think I will have to inspect over the weekend and check what my frame do w.r.t this. What cracks will form due to this problem indicating that it was done incorrectly by a previous owner? Vertical or horizontal cracks?
I have a hutch frame that has a small vertical crack extending from the keyhole are downwards by + - 2 to 3 mm. Think this could have been caused but this? Currently running a shimano DX post.

A bit of play is normal sometimes. A typical bike frame is made of round tubing which is usually measued by the O.D. (outside diameter) so the I.D is not really a concern to the mill. The I.D. of  seat tube sized material can vary from mill to mill (True Temper, Tange, Columbus ect ect) and there is also an accepted tolerance for wall thicknesses which can also affect the tube I.D.

I bought a few of your DX posts and they fit most of my bikes well and one or two a bit loose so I didn't use them on those bikes.

I find the DX post is actually a tad smaller in diameter than a typical 7/8" chrome-moly seat post which is why they tend to fit small on some frames.

Last edited by Coco (2013-06-24 1:36pm)

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#57 2013-06-24 11:11pm

hendrikBMX
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Re: 22.2mm seatpost too small to fit old school frames.....22.6mm???

Hi Coco
Might be because cro moly seatposts have that extra crome plating making it a tad thicker.

I played around last night with my hutch expert frame and a shimano dx seatpost. It has a vertical crack at the keyhole area of about 3mm long. DEFINATELY due to thinner seatpost tube because when the clamp is tighten down the two points at the top of that slit of the keyhole area touches each other. Used a spacer tube and all is well now. Pity the previous owner didn't do it also.

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#58 2013-06-24 11:50pm

tfi_friday
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Re: 22.2mm seatpost too small to fit old school frames.....22.6mm???

I'm struggling to source a 22.4 for my 1983 Kuwahara 24 cruiser... much to no avail so far. sad

If anyone knows of one (layback or straight) available for sale, or even swap for a chrome 22.2 Kuwahara Laser post lay back PM me.

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#59 2013-06-25 12:19am

hendrikBMX
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Re: 22.2mm seatpost too small to fit old school frames.....22.6mm???

That is so little, why don't you use the coke can trick?

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#60 2013-06-25 12:26am

tfi_friday
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Re: 22.2mm seatpost too small to fit old school frames.....22.6mm???

Currently using doing that trick, but would rather a 22.4 in the long run.

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#61 2013-06-25 12:33am

GT Aussie
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Re: 22.2mm seatpost too small to fit old school frames.....22.6mm???

Redline's are notorious for cracking at the base of the slot on the post tube & I have heard Hutch's aren't much better.

Some Redline's are designed for 22.2mm & other's are 22.6mm. Mix them up you are asking for problems.

My mate has to use coke can shims on his Hutch for similar reasons.

Nagaoka made a nice strong fluted alloy 22.4mm that I found was good on the bigger post tubes.

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#62 2013-06-25 3:06am

hendrikBMX
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Re: 22.2mm seatpost too small to fit old school frames.....22.6mm???

I think Coco is right in the sense of pipe manufacturers didn't give a $hit about the inner diameter of the pipes but more concerned about the outer diameter.
And the manufacturers I think also would never have thought the frames would still be ridden by us 30 to 40 years down the line.

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#63 2013-06-25 11:23am

Lazlo
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Re: 22.2mm seatpost too small to fit old school frames.....22.6mm???

hendrikBMX wrote:

I think Coco is right in the sense of pipe manufacturers didn't give a $hit about the inner diameter of the pipes but more concerned about the outer diameter.And the manufacturers I think also would never have thought the frames would still be ridden by us 30 to 40 years down the line.

Exactly.  The other thing to consider is that we have all gotten spoiled with really tight tolerances made available by modern manufacturing techniques.  You used to need a good millwright to constantly check tolerances and make adjustments to the manufacturing equipment.  Now it is done by computer.

I remember wondering as a kid why a set of cranks cost as much as a frame.  The answer is all in the machining.  You didn't have to be so precise on a frame, or the materials that went into it, because no one would ever notice.

Think about it from the bike builders point of view:  you could spend three times as much on every frame for very precise raw materials (that you would have a hard time passing on to the consumer) or you could just use a $0.17 shim and move along.

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#64 2013-07-05 2:36am

hendrikBMX
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Re: 22.2mm seatpost too small to fit old school frames.....22.6mm???

So true

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#65 2013-08-30 11:34pm

stonie
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Re: 22.2mm seatpost too small to fit old school frames.....22.6mm???

photobucket    hmm

Last edited by stonie (2019-04-25 9:54am)


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#66 2013-08-31 3:56am

Crashman
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Re: 22.2mm seatpost too small to fit old school frames.....22.6mm???

smashedshins wrote:

i have a norco that takes a 21.8mm seatpost. anybody got any of those??
it's so small the seatguts don't even want to fit on it. i needed to use a shim to hold it on.

OK, the deal with 7/8" seat posts: It's all about tubing. Tubing is measured in O.D. as opposed to pipe, which uses I.D. If you want a "thin wall" 1" seat tube, you're going to need a larger post to fill the hole.

13/16 was an old Schwinn standard, it was also used on a bunch of aluminum frames that had a 1" seat tube. That's because aluminum needs to be thicker for the same O.D. to retain strength.

Cheap bikes, mild steel to high carbon, used heavy tubing that fit a 7/8" post fairly well. And that's how we ended up with 13/16 and 7/8" standards. Thinner tubing gave us Murray's "a hair under 7/8" and Hutch/Profile/Etc "a hair over 7/8" stuff.

22.6 tubing is nonstandard in steel production, so these companies must have been ordering it specifically for seat posts. Try doing that on your own! You'll need to do a fairly large run of steel simply to get the foundry to take you seriously.

Anyway, the reason you can't find 22.6 posts for sale: I don't think they were actually sold in this non-standard size. Your bike came with one and if it bent, it got tossed.

I've found the perfect shim size to be two pop cans. If you cut a pop can and fold it before you roll it, that works and leaves a nice lip on the top. I remember some "tall boy" cans were once twice as thick, but I haven't been able to find any. If anyone knows a common consumer product made of 0.2mm thick aluminum, I'm all ears!


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#67 2013-08-31 3:58am

Crashman
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Re: 22.2mm seatpost too small to fit old school frames.....22.6mm???

hendrikBMX wrote:

I think Coco is right in the sense of pipe manufacturers didn't give a $hit about the inner diameter of the pipes but more concerned about the outer diameter.
And the manufacturers I think also would never have thought the frames would still be ridden by us 30 to 40 years down the line.

Exactly wrong. This isn't pipe, it's tubing. THE FRAME MANUFACTURER is responsible for this, not the tubing manufacturer.


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#68 2013-08-31 7:19am

Bambi
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Re: 22.2mm seatpost too small to fit old school frames.....22.6mm???

Add to  the list,  84 Hutch Pro Raider. 22.2 fluted pole is a tad too small. neutral


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#69 2013-08-31 8:10am

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Re: 22.2mm seatpost too small to fit old school frames.....22.6mm???

I had to use 1/2 of one of those wald shims on my 83 Centurion.


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I am always glad to give advice any time!!!

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#70 2013-08-31 9:05am

Crashman
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Re: 22.2mm seatpost too small to fit old school frames.....22.6mm???

butlerglc wrote:

I had to use 1/2 of one of those wald shims on my 83 Centurion.

Maybe we should have been riding Schwinn Stings. The bigger seatpost was better and we would have all been stuck on one size smile


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#71 2013-08-31 10:07am

DamageInc
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Re: 22.2mm seatpost too small to fit old school frames.....22.6mm???

Crashman wrote:

If anyone knows a common consumer product made of 0.2mm thick aluminum, I'm all ears!

I was struggling with my Hutch. I bought the frame already powder coated and someone had closed up the keyway from the usual over tightening. I also have what is said to be a NOS hutch seat post and I am dealing with the same issue of size difference. I did my best at opening the keyway and then tried the beer can trick. It worked better but still slipped, just a bit less. I searched around more and found that you can buy shim kits by UNI which also consists of a 0.6" thick sheet of sticky back aluminum. This then gave me the idea of the  semi-standard household item, aluminum foil ducting tape.  I wrapped the post two or three times and that about took most of the gap. Being sticky backed also I would suspect gives one less surface to slip along. I haven't ridden the bike this way yet but just man handling it, it seems to make a much better difference.


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#72 2013-08-31 10:43am

Crashman
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Re: 22.2mm seatpost too small to fit old school frames.....22.6mm???

DamageInc wrote:

Crashman wrote:

If anyone knows a common consumer product made of 0.2mm thick aluminum, I'm all ears!

I was struggling with my Hutch. I bought the frame already powder coated and someone had closed up the keyway from the usual over tightening. I also have what is said to be a NOS hutch seat post and I am dealing with the same issue of size difference. I did my best at opening the keyway and then tried the beer can trick. It worked better but still slipped, just a bit less. I searched around more and found that you can buy shim kits by UNI which also consists of a 0.6" thick sheet of sticky back aluminum. This then gave me the idea of the  semi-standard household item, aluminum foil ducting tape.  I wrapped the post two or three times and that about took most of the gap. Being sticky backed also I would suspect gives one less surface to slip along. I haven't ridden the bike this way yet but just man handling it, it seems to make a much better difference.

You have to understand that I'm doing OK with a doubled-over aluminum can simply to avoid tape, so I can keep it adjustable. And it's a perfect fit, but it's also fragile (I can't pull out and put in the post without tearing it) so I'm looking pretty hard for a shim that's the same thickness as my doubled-over aluminum can.

BTW, I've been using a stem to open up seat tubes since I was a kid. Starting with a 21.1 BMX stem and moving up to a 22.2 "road" stem, using the wedge to spread it and the shape of the stem to keep it mostly round.


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#73 2013-08-31 11:01am

DamageInc
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Re: 22.2mm seatpost too small to fit old school frames.....22.6mm???

Great idea on the stem for reshaping. I've been trying to think of a tool with the same idea behind it. Sometimes the answers are right there in front of you. Mine could use a little bit more shaping. Thanks


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#74 2013-08-31 12:32pm

Crashman
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Re: 22.2mm seatpost too small to fit old school frames.....22.6mm???

DamageInc wrote:

Great idea on the stem for reshaping. I've been trying to think of a tool with the same idea behind it. Sometimes the answers are right there in front of you. Mine could use a little bit more shaping. Thanks

If it's covered in dents and crush marks, sometimes you can smooth it a little by putting a seat post clamp on the outside and a stem on the inside :p I've found it useful with the seatpost clamp flipped around (away from the slot) for removing pucker.


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#75 2013-08-31 4:49pm

j13
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Re: 22.2mm seatpost too small to fit old school frames.....22.6mm???

my 90 performer is the same way. I got a 16"/22.2mm layback,  and with extra thick chrome it still is very small. I had to use a shim made of sheet metal.

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