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#1 2009-10-03 12:48pm

quinonesm
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From: Philly via NYC
Registered: 2008-08-02
Posts: 3043
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Spoke Length Database For Wheel Builders!

So, I think it's high time we put together a database of known spoke lengths for different wheel building combinations. The one real challenge we often face when building wheels is knowing the proper spoke length for various hub/rim combinations.

I learned how to build wheels here on the museum from some of the handy guides(I may as well include the link for easy reference)

http://www.thehousebmx.com/Spoke.html

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html

I find it very satisfying and rewarding when i build my own wheels, not to mention the serious financial savings involved. Some LBS's will try to rob you blind with this service, so I highly recommend learning this craft!

The intent of this thread is for all of us who have built wheels to share the knowledge of the correct spoke length for the various wheels we've built and maintain an ongoing database of this here. With this being the museum, it seems appropriate that a spoke length database is part of the data kept here. Please feel free to add your own experience with proven and confirmed spoke lengths, listing the exact hub (any and all detail if there are model differences), exact rim (and any additional detail if needed) and the correct spoke length for that specific combo. Also, feel free to add any additional info you feel may be pertinent or useful.

For example:
- Bullseye Hubs with Araya 7x (single wall rim), cross 3 pattern
Front 188mm
Rear 186mm

- Bullseye hubs with Araya Super 7x (double wall rim), cross 3 pattern
Front 188mm
Rear 187mm (not sure why the difference, but it works)

- GT Superlace hubs with Ukai Speedlines (or shiny sides), cross 4 pattern (technically, although due to the staggered hole design of the hub, the spokes only physically cross 3)
Front  & rear 194mm (the difference between front and rear is negligible so the same size works for both)

- Peregrine HP-48 Hoop, Peregrine Sealed High Flange Hubs, 4x, tall nipples, 182mm

- Peregrine Speedline 48 Hoop, Peregrine Loose-ball High Flange Hubs, 4x, tall nipples, 184mm

- ACS Z-48 Hoop, Peregrine Loose-ball High Flange Hubs, 4x tall nipples, 182mm

- Ukai Speedline 48 Hoop, Redline (Peregrine) Loose-ball High Flange Hubs, 4x, tall nipples, 184mm

- Araya Super 7X to Profile SS hubs and 3X pattern.
Dan's Comp sent 184mm and they were perfect.

Felt double drive 48 hole with Araya super 7x (vintage) = 184mm (short nipples rear, long nipples front worked).

- 24"  36 hole Sun Rhyno Lites to Profile Race hubs (the older big body style)
and 3 cross  =  235mm

- ACS Z-Rims and a brand new set of Suntour High flange Hubs = 7 5/8 or 194mm

- Ukai Speedlines to Profile HF Gyrolite II's x4 pattern = 194 mm or 7 5/8

- Low flange PMC hubs laced to Araya super 7X with a 4 cross= 194mm

- Mongoose pro class 20x1 3/8 laced to most all LF hubs 4x 216 mm

- 24x1.75 araya's laced to profile gyrolite 2's 3x 233 mm or 4x 244 mm

- 20" Sun 4 Play rims and Sun Ringle Jabba the Hubset, 4x 182 mm with short nipples

- 24x 1.75 araya 7x  to low flange suntour sealed hub...244  mm to be exact for 4x.

- ACS Z-48 Hoop, Peregrine Loose-ball High Flange Hubs, 4x, tall nipples, 180mm spokes

- Araya 1.50 7X rims to SR high flange sealed mechanism hubs, 194mm

- ACS high flange hubs front and rear for Araya 7x wheels, 180mm rear /front

- 26" acs z rims with acs large flange hubs 4x = 270mm

- 2nd Gen SST hubs laced to Black Ambrosios (20 inch) using Std. Black ASAHI 7 5/8 spokes on both with long nipples

- Early bullseye thru bolt hubs laced to 26" pro class hoops with SHORT NIPPLES (long nipples will not work) FRONT = 264mm REAR = 263mm Freewheel side, 265mm non freewheel side

Sunshine Sealed hubs laced to 26" pro class hoops 4x w/long nipples
262mm REAR
263mm FRONT

Sunshine Sealed hubs with 24" araya 7x hoops 3x w/long nipples
234mm Front
233mm rear


Profile Mini Race 36 hole hubs to 24" Sun Envy Lites
Front = 237mm
Rear = 237mm non-drive and 234mm drive side


Campy Record C high flange hubs  with 26" Araya 7x
258mm front
257mm rear
SHORT NIPPLES


24" Araya 7X's laced 3 cross to sealed LF Suzue hubs
237mm front & rear with long nips


The following information is specifically for the GT Superlace Coaster brake hub

- Normal 4 cross & spokes inside the hub is 194mm
The flange is larger then front superlace hub, but the flange norrow then front. 194 is fine

About the spokes inside out lacing......
Front is 190mm with alloy long nipples
Rear is 180mm with alloy long nipples

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b326/joe6187/Temp/201105091545.jpg

Normal 4 cross 194 with chrome short nipples
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b326/joe6187/Chrome/201105211666.jpg

Inside out mad   
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b326/joe6187/Temp/201105261733.jpg

3 cross use 184mm with chrome short nipples
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b326/joe6187/SuperPro/201104191384.jpg[/quote


So that's basically the idea.

Side Thread:
http://bmxmuseum.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=676913

Thanks to all in advance! wink

Last edited by quinonesm (2012-01-02 5:44am)


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#2 2009-10-03 1:29pm

guydlow
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Re: Spoke Length Database For Wheel Builders!

Awesome idea Marcus!
Im actually trying to figure out how to piece together a wheel set. I have odyssey midway 48's, and the spokes I want I can only find in 184, so I'm trying to figure out what hubs I can use

I found this link on wheel building, with some links off this link
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html


Looking for: Survivor purple/lavender GT mallet (open to blue, green), odyssey fs 2000 calipers (need black and open to anything except white or silver), rx3 levers, anything survivor 80's freestyle

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#3 2009-10-03 2:24pm

boxline69
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From: Montgomery, AL
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Re: Spoke Length Database For Wheel Builders!

Cool idea, maybe do it spread sheet style by rim column then hub crossed on the side.


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#4 2009-10-03 2:37pm

pitbaldridge
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Re: Spoke Length Database For Wheel Builders!

a friend of mine has a older bike shop book that lists all the hub types and rim types and tell you what spoke length to use with what pattern . ill try to get some photocopy's or something and post them .

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#5 2009-10-03 2:38pm

Z.
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From: Texas
Registered: 2009-05-18
Posts: 7709
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Re: Spoke Length Database For Wheel Builders!

quinonesm, That is the most fantastic thread I have seen in weeks..   

I have been waiting for this day to happen.

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#6 2009-10-03 3:10pm

krankyankee
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From: New Hampshire
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Re: Spoke Length Database For Wheel Builders!

This lets you input your measurements/spoke count and gives you results for radial to 4X.

http://www.wheelpro.co.uk/

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#7 2009-10-03 4:13pm

quinonesm
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From: Philly via NYC
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Re: Spoke Length Database For Wheel Builders!

boxline69 wrote:

Cool idea, maybe do it spread sheet style by rim column then hub crossed on the side.

that's a definite great idea! I can do this once there is more data.

Z - I agree and the idea popped into my head during the Philly ride, but I almost forgot about it!

Pit - that would be very helpful, so thanks in advance!

Kranky - thanks for the link! It's a great last resort or for those combos not yet in the DB. I have to admit though, I have no confidence in my measuring abilities. I tried this before with the 1st set of bullseye wheels I built and I could not come up with the proper measurments to match the length that Danscomp later provided. Perhaps some measurment calipers are needed for this task. big_smile

in any case, I hope that those with experience can chime in and share their info.


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#8 2009-10-03 4:21pm

quinonesm
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From: Philly via NYC
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Re: Spoke Length Database For Wheel Builders!

guydlow wrote:

Awesome idea Marcus!
Im actually trying to figure out how to piece together a wheel set. I have odyssey midway 48's, and the spokes I want I can only find in 184, so I'm trying to figure out what hubs I can use

I found this link on wheel building, with some links off this link
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html

Thanks. I'm not familiar with those rims, but the length of spoke your going to use suggests a hub with a flange similar to a bullseye hub, but that's as far from scientific as one can get! lol Good luck in your seArch and please let us know what you find out.


U.S. Army Vet
It's pronounced Keen-YO-nez, but I'm fine with Q! smile

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#9 2009-10-03 4:45pm

pjcruiser
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From: Bend, OR
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Re: Spoke Length Database For Wheel Builders!

this is a good one for modern day stuff:

http://www.thehousebmx.com/Spoke.html


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#10 2009-10-03 7:27pm

quinonesm
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Re: Spoke Length Database For Wheel Builders!

^ Thanks PJ


U.S. Army Vet
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#11 2009-10-03 7:33pm

caleb_k31
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From: Milwaukee, WI
Registered: 2006-04-07
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Re: Spoke Length Database For Wheel Builders!

there is a spoke calculator where you put in all your hub measurements, hoop size, cross pattern youwant and it will do all the math for you..   figuring out some of the hub measurements can be tricky though..   

ive build a dozen or so wheel sets mostly in cross 4 pattern, 194 pretty muchs works on any low flange 36 hole laced to a 20" hoop..   high flange is 184mm.  you can go up or down 1mm withough a problem in most cases.


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All the hub/hoop measuring info you will need along with spoke calculation info http://bmxmuseum.com/forums/viewtopic.p … 9#p5435389

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#12 2009-10-04 6:08pm

quinonesm
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From: Philly via NYC
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Re: Spoke Length Database For Wheel Builders!

Hoping to keep this thread alive...please contribute if you have any info on spoke lengths for rim/hub combos. There are plenty of calculators available, but they require complicated measurements of the hubs and known info about the rim. I'm trying to make this easy for all of the wheel builders out there by compiling the data in one easy to reference location.

Any and all contributions are welcome!!! big_smile


U.S. Army Vet
It's pronounced Keen-YO-nez, but I'm fine with Q! smile

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#13 2009-10-06 2:54pm

pitbaldridge
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Re: Spoke Length Database For Wheel Builders!

ooops , sorry man . forgot about this thread untill i came back across it . the friend of mine with the book is a member here ( not as active though ) , ill p.m. him now and see if he can post some info.

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#14 2009-10-06 3:26pm

quinonesm
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From: Philly via NYC
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Re: Spoke Length Database For Wheel Builders!

pitbaldridge wrote:

ooops , sorry man . forgot about this thread untill i came back across it . the friend of mine with the book is a member here ( not as active though ) , ill p.m. him now and see if he can post some info.

Thanks man!


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#15 2009-10-06 3:32pm

Draw
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From: Alabama
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Re: Spoke Length Database For Wheel Builders!

uhh...

you know you can just call dans comp or able's and tell them what hoops and hubs you
have and what cross you are wanting and they can tell you the spoke length.

they have a monstrous database.

these threads have been started before but someone always has something that will never be mentioned.

Last edited by Draw (2009-10-06 3:34pm)


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#16 2009-10-06 3:53pm

quinonesm
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Re: Spoke Length Database For Wheel Builders!

Draw wrote:

uhh...

you know you can just call dans comp or able's and tell them what hoops and hubs you
have and what cross you are wanting and they can tell you the spoke length.

they have a monstrous database.

these threads have been started before but someone always has something that will never be mentioned.

That's the idea Draw...if everyone contributes, you can get what you need right here with a quick search. Although their DB may be monstrous, they don't always have what you need in there.

I've called Dan's with hubs and hoops and they weren't in the Database. I've also had the runaround for 3 weeks or so trying to get the info I needed and it get's frustrating. Dans also doesn't seem to have a lot of info on cruiser hub/rim combos, so that is valuable information that can be easily found here. If you're asked to take measurements and manage to screw that up, you'll end up with custom cut spokes that won't work for building wheels but could come in handy for a game of pick up stix! lol


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It's pronounced Keen-YO-nez, but I'm fine with Q! smile

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#17 2009-10-06 8:45pm

swflsuprapep
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From: North Port, FL
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Re: Spoke Length Database For Wheel Builders!

pitbaldridge wrote:

ooops , sorry man . forgot about this thread untill i came back across it . the friend of mine with the book is a member here ( not as active though ) , ill p.m. him now and see if he can post some info.

Yeah, yeah, I know,Pit, you want me on here all the time. Of course, some of us have a life outside our four walls. Just kidding man. Anyways, the book you are referrring to is Sutherland's Handbook for Bicycle Mechanics. The one I have is basically about 25 years old now. I will see if I can get my wife to scan in the pages. Or maybe photo them and put them on here.


Started from the bottom, now we're here

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#18 2009-10-06 8:52pm

trickster
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Registered: 2008-11-27
Posts: 827

Re: Spoke Length Database For Wheel Builders!

pitbaldridge wrote:

a friend of mine has a older bike shop book that lists all the hub types and rim types and tell you what spoke length to use with what pattern . ill try to get some photocopy's or something and post them .

needed 36 spoke hutch hubs to arayas 4 X???
what size is era correct??
roll


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#19 2009-10-06 8:55pm

trickster
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Registered: 2008-11-27
Posts: 827

Re: Spoke Length Database For Wheel Builders!

3 x 4 x straight laced??? hmm
great post
36 hubs 48 hubs ????
HELP!~!!


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#20 2009-10-06 8:56pm

swflsuprapep
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From: North Port, FL
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Re: Spoke Length Database For Wheel Builders!

trickster wrote:

pitbaldridge wrote:

a friend of mine has a older bike shop book that lists all the hub types and rim types and tell you what spoke length to use with what pattern . ill try to get some photocopy's or something and post them .

needed 36 spoke hutch hubs to arayas 4 X???
what size is era correct??
roll

What is the size of your hub in mm? Measure from spoke hole to spoke hole center and which Arayas?


Started from the bottom, now we're here

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#21 2009-10-06 9:59pm

trickster
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Registered: 2008-11-27
Posts: 827

Re: Spoke Length Database For Wheel Builders!

swflsuprapep wrote:

trickster wrote:

pitbaldridge wrote:

a friend of mine has a older bike shop book that lists all the hub types and rim types and tell you what spoke length to use with what pattern . ill try to get some photocopy's or something and post them .

needed 36 spoke hutch hubs to arayas 4 X???
what size is era correct??
roll

What is the size of your hub in mm? Measure from spoke hole to spoke hole center and which Arayas?

ILL GET BACK WITHYA ON THAT GOTTA FIND MY MIC..  THANKS BRO cool


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#22 2009-10-11 7:20pm

swflsuprapep
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From: North Port, FL
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Posts: 350
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Re: Spoke Length Database For Wheel Builders!

I finally had a moment to ask my wife to scan the pages for me. She is the technical one that know how to do that. Hopefully she can get it done within a day or two.


Started from the bottom, now we're here

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#23 2009-10-13 11:22am

quinonesm
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From: Philly via NYC
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Re: Spoke Length Database For Wheel Builders!

swflsuprapep wrote:

I finally had a moment to ask my wife to scan the pages for me. She is the technical one that know how to do that. Hopefully she can get it done within a day or two.

tell her we all say thanks!


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It's pronounced Keen-YO-nez, but I'm fine with Q! smile

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#24 2009-10-13 5:27pm

G.
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Re: Spoke Length Database For Wheel Builders!

DT Spokes has one that you can use, it has some hubs and rims listed in a drop down menu for front and rear wheels. It lists more mntn bike and road hubs and rims than bmx, but your combo might be on there.
Sometimes you can find hub measurements and rim ERD's on the web, Profile and Sun list their info.
I found the DT site one of the most accurate for calculating spoke length if you have the right measurements.
I'm on my phone so I can't post the url, but just search....
DT Spoke Calc

As someone that built wheels proffesionally for years, I cannot stress the fact to use some sort of spoke prep on the spoke treads when building a wheel to ease in the build and to help maintain spoke tension


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#25 2010-03-02 12:57pm

Z.
Pro MemberOZ Shipping Dude
From: Texas
Registered: 2009-05-18
Posts: 7709
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Re: Spoke Length Database For Wheel Builders!

27" REGULAR WHEELS (36 Spokes)

HIGH FLANGE 4 CROSS...12-1/16"..307mm

HIGH FLANGE 3 CROSS...11-5/8"...297mm

HIGH FLANGE 2 CROSS...11-3/8"...288mm


HIGH FLANGE 1 CROSS...11-1/1"...282mm



HIGH FLANGE 0 CROSS...11".......280mm

LOW  FLANGE 4 CROSS...12-1/8"...308mm

LOW  FLANGE 3 CROSS...11-7/8"...302mm

LOW  FLANGE 2 CROSS...11-1/2"...296mm

LOW  FLANGE 1 CROSS...11-1/2"...292mm

LOW  FLANGE 0 CROSS...11-1/2"...291mm

27" TUBULAR RIMS Subtract  1/8"...3mm

700c REGULAR RIMS Subtract 3/16"..5mm

700c TUBULAR RIMS Subtract 1/4"...7mm

SEW-UP RIMS Subtract.......3/16"..5mm



26 x 1-3/8 WHEELS (36 Spokes)

HIGH FLANGE 4 CROSS...11-1/4"...287mm

HIGH FLANGE 3 CROSS...10-7/8"...277mm

LOW  FLANGE 4 CROSS...11-1/4"...288mm

LOW  FLANGE 3 CROSS...11-1/8"...282mm



26 X 1-3/8 WHEELS (40 Spokes)

HIGH FLANGE 4 CROSS...11-1/8"...283mm

HIGH FLANGE 3 CROSS...10-3/4"...273mm



26 X 1-3/8 WHEELS (32 Spokes)

LOW FLANGE 3 CROSS...11-3/16"..284mm

ALL 26 x 1-1/4 WHEELS Add 3/16"...4mm



26 X 1.75/2.125 WHEELS (36 Spokes)

HIGH FLANGE 4 CROSS...10-5/8"...270mm

HIGH FLANGE 3 CROSS...10-1/4"...260mm

LOW FLANGE 4 CROSS...10-5/8"...271mm

LOW FLANGE 3 CROSS...10-3/8"...265mm

26 X 1-3/4 WHEELS Add..3/16"......7mm



24 X 1-3/8 WHEELS (36 Spokes)

HIGH FLANGE 4 CROSS...10-1/4"...261mm

HIGH FLANGE 3 CROSS...9-7/8"....251mm

LOW  FLANGE 4 CROSS...10-1/4"...262mm

LOW  FLANGE 3 CROSS...10-1/8"...256mm



24 X 1-3/8 WHEELS (28 Spokes)

HIGH FLANGE 3 CROSS...10-1/4"...260mm

LOW  FLANGE 3 CROSS   10-1/4"...261mm

24 X 1-1/4 WHEELS Add 3/16".......4mm



24 X 1.75/2.125 WHEELS (36 Spokes)

HIGH FLANGE 4 CROSS...9-5/8"...245mm

HIGH FLANGE 3 CROSS...9-1/4"...235mm

LOW  FLANGE 4 CROSS...9-5/8"...246mm

LOW  FLANGE 3 CROSS...9-1/2"...240mm

24 X 1-3/4..........Add 3/8"....10mm



20 X 1.75/2.125 WHEELS (36 Spokes)

HIGH FLANGE 4 CROSS...7-5/8"...195mm

HIGH FLANGE 3 CROSS...7-1/4"...185mm

HIGH FLANGE 2 CROSS...6-7/8"...176mm

LOW  FLANGE 3 CROSS...7-1/2"...189mm

LOW  FLANGE 2 CROSS...7-1/4"...184mm



20 X 1.75/2.125 WHEELS (28 Spokes)

HIGH FLANGE 3 CROSS...7-5/8"...194mm

HIGH FLANGE 2 CROSS...7-1/8"...181mm

LOW  FLANGE 3 CROSS...7-5/8"...195mm

LOW  FLANGE 2 CROSS...7-3/8"...187mm



20 X 1.75/2.125 WHEELS (24 Spokes)

HIGH FLANGE 2 CROSS...7-1/4"...185mm

LOW  FLANGE 2 CROSS...7-1/2"...189mm

20 X 1.75/2.125 WHEELS (20 Spokes)



HIGH FLANGE 2 CROSS...7-1/2"...185mm

LOW  FLANGE 2 CROSS...7-5/8"...193mm

20 X 1-3/8" WHEELS Add 7/8".....23mm

20 x 1-3/4" WHEELS Add 1/4"......6mm



16 X 1.75/2.125 WHEELS (28 Spokes)

HIGH FLANGE 2 CROSS...5-1/8"...130mm

LOW FLANGE 2 CROSS...5-5/8"...143mm

16 X 1.75 (24 Spokes) add 1/8"...3mm

16 X 1-3/8 WHEEL Add....7/8"....23mm

16 X 1-3/4 WHEEL Add....1/4".....7mm

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