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S&M hoarders unite

#28351 2021-05-03 7:29am

Haro-83
Pro MemberTEXAS HILLBILLY
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Re: S&M hoarders unite

I never notice that until today.

I always thought holmes fork is the same as pitchfork but has a thin steer tube-like challenger fork but with sandwich dropout like an early pitchfork.
No brake hole.

But didn't realize that the tube is also different as u can see holmes fork has a smaller diameter tube than the pitchfork. Is that the same as the challenger fork? If so it's pretty much a challenger fork without brake hole and with sandwich dropout.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/uploads.bmxmuseum.com/user-images/35457/20210503_091326609008a403.jpg


https://s3.amazonaws.com/uploads.bmxmuseum.com/user-images/35457/20210503_091427609008a8cb.jpg
https://s3.amazonaws.com/uploads.bmxmuseum.com/user-images/35457/20210503_091456609008b2e3.jpg
https://s3.amazonaws.com/uploads.bmxmuseum.com/user-images/35457/20210503_091501609008b974.jpg
https://s3.amazonaws.com/uploads.bmxmuseum.com/user-images/35457/20210503_091511609008bd3f.jpg


Build it, Ride it & Break it. That what "it" was made for.

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#28352 2021-05-03 10:37am

Forhisglory_1
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Re: S&M hoarders unite

Haro-83 wrote:

I never notice that until today.

I always thought holmes fork is the same as pitchfork but has a thin steer tube-like challenger fork but with sandwich dropout like an early pitchfork.
No brake hole.

But didn't realize that the tube is also different as u can see holmes fork has a smaller diameter tube than the pitchfork. Is that the same as the challenger fork? If so it's pretty much a challenger fork without brake hole and with sandwich dropout.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/uploads.bmxmuseum.com/user-image … 08a403.jpg


https://s3.amazonaws.com/uploads.bmxmuseum.com/user-image … 08a8cb.jpg
https://s3.amazonaws.com/uploads.bmxmuseum.com/user-image … 08b2e3.jpg
https://s3.amazonaws.com/uploads.bmxmuseum.com/user-image … 08b974.jpg
https://s3.amazonaws.com/uploads.bmxmuseum.com/user-image … 08bd3f.jpg

So cool thanks for sharing! I love seeing the little differences.


For the right price everything is for sale.
I love Jesus and BMX.
Check out my blog at awakenosleeper

My struggle with being faithful
https://bmxmuseum.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=795894

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#28353 2021-05-03 10:38am

Forhisglory_1
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Re: S&M hoarders unite

So I saw this on Pinkbike today.....

https://s3.amazonaws.com/uploads.bmxmuseum.com/user-images/239554/tandem609034fba8.png
https://s3.amazonaws.com/uploads.bmxmuseum.com/user-images/239554/tandem2609034faa0.png


For the right price everything is for sale.
I love Jesus and BMX.
Check out my blog at awakenosleeper

My struggle with being faithful
https://bmxmuseum.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=795894

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#28354 2021-05-03 10:40am

theflowrider
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From: San Diego, CA
Registered: 2009-02-06
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Re: S&M hoarders unite

Haro-83 wrote:

I never notice that until today.

I always thought holmes fork is the same as pitchfork but has a thin steer tube-like challenger fork but with sandwich dropout like an early pitchfork.
No brake hole.

But didn't realize that the tube is also different as u can see holmes fork has a smaller diameter tube than the pitchfork. Is that the same as the challenger fork? If so it's pretty much a challenger fork without brake hole and with sandwich dropout.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/uploads.bmxmuseum.com/user-image … 08a403.jpg


https://s3.amazonaws.com/uploads.bmxmuseum.com/user-image … 08a8cb.jpg
https://s3.amazonaws.com/uploads.bmxmuseum.com/user-image … 08b2e3.jpg
https://s3.amazonaws.com/uploads.bmxmuseum.com/user-image … 08b974.jpg
https://s3.amazonaws.com/uploads.bmxmuseum.com/user-image … 08bd3f.jpg

Coool

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#28355 2021-05-03 11:24am

necessaryevil
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Re: S&M hoarders unite

New Motoman sprocket came today. The backside lettering is milled unlike the originals that were laser etched.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/uploads.bmxmuseum.com/user-images/114171/dsc_030160903f2091.jpg

https://s3.amazonaws.com/uploads.bmxmuseum.com/user-images/114171/dsc_030260903f33c6.jpg


In search of Schwinn ENF decals, the later red style.

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#28356 2021-05-03 3:46pm

mike0550
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Re: S&M hoarders unite

I remember this bike. I think it has been listed for sale before.


Red Mid School Dirtbikes are my weakness.

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#28357 2021-05-04 5:47am

mongoosefreak
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Re: S&M hoarders unite

https://s3.amazonaws.com/uploads.bmxmuseum.com/user-images/40400/screenshot_20210504-084336_photos6091422337.jpg
https://s3.amazonaws.com/uploads.bmxmuseum.com/user-images/40400/screenshot_20210504-084340_photos6091422de1.jpg
https://s3.amazonaws.com/uploads.bmxmuseum.com/user-images/40400/screenshot_20210504-084411_photos6091423c9e.jpg
https://s3.amazonaws.com/uploads.bmxmuseum.com/user-images/40400/screenshot_20210504-084428_photos609142707c.jpg
https://s3.amazonaws.com/uploads.bmxmuseum.com/user-images/40400/screenshot_20210504-084435_photos609142707a.jpg
[img]Screenshot_20210504-084507_Photos.jpg uploading ...[/img]
https://s3.amazonaws.com/uploads.bmxmuseum.com/user-images/40400/screenshot_20210504-084512_photos60914270bb.jpg
https://s3.amazonaws.com/uploads.bmxmuseum.com/user-images/40400/screenshot_20210504-084454_photos609142703c.jpg
[img]Screenshot_20210504-084447_Photos.jpg uploading ...[/img]
[img]Screenshot_20210504-084419_Photos.jpg uploading ...[/img]

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#28358 2021-05-04 5:49am

mongoosefreak
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Re: S&M hoarders unite

https://s3.amazonaws.com/uploads.bmxmuseum.com/user-images/40400/screenshot_20210504-084415_photos609142e3db.jpg
https://s3.amazonaws.com/uploads.bmxmuseum.com/user-images/40400/screenshot_20210504-084419_photos609142e344.jpg
https://s3.amazonaws.com/uploads.bmxmuseum.com/user-images/40400/screenshot_20210504-084424_photos609142e3e4.jpg
https://s3.amazonaws.com/uploads.bmxmuseum.com/user-images/40400/screenshot_20210504-084507_photos609142e37e.jpg
https://s3.amazonaws.com/uploads.bmxmuseum.com/user-images/40400/screenshot_20210504-084350_photos609142e42d.jpg

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#28359 2021-05-04 7:07am

Redneck T-Rex
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Re: S&M hoarders unite

Haro-83 wrote:

I never notice that until today.

I always thought holmes fork is the same as pitchfork but has a thin steer tube-like challenger fork but with sandwich dropout like an early pitchfork.
No brake hole.

But didn't realize that the tube is also different as u can see holmes fork has a smaller diameter tube than the pitchfork. Is that the same as the challenger fork? If so it's pretty much a challenger fork without brake hole and with sandwich dropout.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/uploads.bmxmuseum.com/user-image … 08a403.jpg


https://s3.amazonaws.com/uploads.bmxmuseum.com/user-image … 08a8cb.jpg
https://s3.amazonaws.com/uploads.bmxmuseum.com/user-image … 08b2e3.jpg
https://s3.amazonaws.com/uploads.bmxmuseum.com/user-image … 08b974.jpg
https://s3.amazonaws.com/uploads.bmxmuseum.com/user-image … 08bd3f.jpg

Post this in the reference section


If you want to experience all of the successes and pleasure in life, you have to be willing to accept all the pain and failure that comes with it.
-Mat Hoffman

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#28360 2021-05-04 7:26am

BMX3353
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Re: S&M hoarders unite

necessaryevil wrote:

New Motoman sprocket came today. The backside lettering is milled unlike the originals that were laser etched.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/uploads.bmxmuseum.com/user-image … 3f2091.jpg

https://s3.amazonaws.com/uploads.bmxmuseum.com/user-image … 3f33c6.jpg

What am I missing here? I am no S&M expert.
1) What is the correlation between "Motomag" and "Motoman"? (Mongoose and S&M?)

2) "backside lettering is milled unlike the originals that were laser etched."
Are the photos of the two different versions? I don't see anything milled or etched on the backside.

Disregard question #2. I notice now that the photo shows etching on the backside. I figured it out by the way it is packaged. Odd though because it looks more finished on the backside.

Last edited by BMX3353 (2021-05-04 7:36am)

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#28361 2021-05-04 8:01am

necessaryevil
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Re: S&M hoarders unite

Original Motoman sprocket:
https://s3.amazonaws.com/uploads.bmxmuseum.com/user-images/114171/motoman609161aaef.jpeg


In search of Schwinn ENF decals, the later red style.

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#28362 2021-05-04 8:18am

lg1
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Re: S&M hoarders unite

https://s3.amazonaws.com/uploads.bmxmuseum.com/user-images/243958/1e05924a-a0d0-42b4-b1fc-32a0986181ca609165b34a.jpeg
https://s3.amazonaws.com/uploads.bmxmuseum.com/user-images/243958/f991efb0-ab84-403e-9aeb-e4ee9293dd02609165b33f.jpeg


Pants first, then shoes.

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#28363 2021-05-04 10:40am

socaldude
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Re: S&M hoarders unite

BMX3353 wrote:

necessaryevil wrote:

New Motoman sprocket came today. The backside lettering is milled unlike the originals that were laser etched.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/uploads.bmxmuseum.com/user-image … 3f2091.jpg

https://s3.amazonaws.com/uploads.bmxmuseum.com/user-image … 3f33c6.jpg

What am I missing here? I am no S&M expert.
1) What is the correlation between "Motomag" and "Motoman"? (Mongoose and S&M?)

2) "backside lettering is milled unlike the originals that were laser etched."
Are the photos of the two different versions? I don't see anything milled or etched on the backside.

Disregard question #2. I notice now that the photo shows etching on the backside. I figured it out by the way it is packaged. Odd though because it looks more finished on the backside.

As to #1, not really a connection other than S&M doing what they do.  A sprocket modelled after the Tuff Wheel Mag called the Tuff Man.  One modelled after the Motomag called the Moto Man.


planetbicycle@yahoo.com

Would love to find my old Dirt Bike.  It was stolen in Pompano Beach, Florida in about 1996.  It's a '92 with the block graphics on a Green frame.  Pitchforks, Slam bars, King Headset, GT (DK-style) stem and GT/Profile cranks.  Superlace hubs.  Would really love to put this back in my collection.

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#28364 2021-05-04 11:13am

AlurencatBMX
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Re: S&M hoarders unite

Bloody hell S&Ms are skinny at the back !

https://s3.amazonaws.com/uploads.bmxmuseum.com/user-images/41840/p_20210504_17271760917a7573.jpg

I am guessing I am going to have to grind the shit out of the rear peg to get it to fit? what pegs do you guys use on these virtually non existent drops? lol


Limb by Limb we are gon cut dem down,
send fi the hacksaw, take out de tongue.

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#28365 2021-05-04 11:19am

Forhisglory_1
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Re: S&M hoarders unite

AlurencatBMX wrote:

Bloody hell S&Ms are skinny at the back !

https://s3.amazonaws.com/uploads.bmxmuseum.com/user-image … 7a7573.jpg

I am guessing I am going to have to grind the shit out of the rear peg to get it to fit? what pegs do you guys use on these virtually non existent drops? lol

I think there are some pegs that have a small angled cut out on one side that were made to fit on some forks. Maybe that will work? I will try to remember which pegs they are so I can find a picture of what I am talking about. Also, If I remember correctly the chain rubbing on the inside of the seatstay was an issue on these so maybe check that before you get too far down the road on the build. Or I may be completely wrong ha ha.

Last edited by Forhisglory_1 (2021-05-04 11:20am)


For the right price everything is for sale.
I love Jesus and BMX.
Check out my blog at awakenosleeper

My struggle with being faithful
https://bmxmuseum.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=795894

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#28366 2021-05-04 11:27am

AlurencatBMX
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Re: S&M hoarders unite

Just looked at one on here. Looks close. I can put a hub guard in I guess (which will create more space).


Limb by Limb we are gon cut dem down,
send fi the hacksaw, take out de tongue.

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#28367 2021-05-04 11:38am

socaldude
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Re: S&M hoarders unite

These frames weren't necessarily designed for pegs although neither were the frames from the 80's.  You'll probably have some issues with brake positioning.  That was the biggest concern with these frames.  I ended up getting brake bosses welded on in the right spot.


planetbicycle@yahoo.com

Would love to find my old Dirt Bike.  It was stolen in Pompano Beach, Florida in about 1996.  It's a '92 with the block graphics on a Green frame.  Pitchforks, Slam bars, King Headset, GT (DK-style) stem and GT/Profile cranks.  Superlace hubs.  Would really love to put this back in my collection.

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#28368 2021-05-04 11:45am

AlurencatBMX
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Re: S&M hoarders unite

Thanks. I will get up and try a brake on it in a bit. Don't have the lugs yet, but can centre the brake as I have the bolts. That way I can try a few brakes on there.


Limb by Limb we are gon cut dem down,
send fi the hacksaw, take out de tongue.

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#28369 2021-05-04 1:06pm

AlurencatBMX
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Re: S&M hoarders unite

Right. I had a play, these are my findings. Firstly I think I know why people have had brake issues with S&M not lining up etc. I have a very strong feeling that they use an original AD 990 for their testing and jigs.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/uploads.bmxmuseum.com/user-images/41840/brakecaliper-diacompe-ad990-silver-watermark__69643.14550444736091a6e03a.webp

The reason I think that is because of the angle of attack you can get from those. Like, the pads themselves. Much more than with any other brake. I tried some Proper pads in my Mission (known for huge tyre clearance) and I got this.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/uploads.bmxmuseum.com/user-images/41840/p_20210504_1958466091a73819.jpg

Now bear in mind that this is with the wheel all the way in. So that is the worse case scenario. The more the wheel comes back the more of it shows to the brake. However, a problem I did have was that on the other side with a modern brake pad in there I could not get the pad close enough to the brake arm. This is because the pad is not threaded all of the way down. Another issue you would not run into with an original 990. Those things allow the pad to contort and twist all you like. So, the answer to that lay with the cheap pads that came on the Haro.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/uploads.bmxmuseum.com/user-images/41840/p_20210504_2023086091a7b7b0.jpg

Which have much smaller pivot mounts on the inside. The issue was that one arm was riding on the tyre with the pad in. However, with these pads in? this is with the brake "pulled"

https://s3.amazonaws.com/uploads.bmxmuseum.com/user-images/41840/p_20210504_2022266091a7eb09.jpg


Now I know that it means my brake will need to be dialled to within a mm, but I have always spent hours doing that stuff any way.

As for the drive line/chain? yeah, see I think I got that issue solved too. The problem is not at the rear end. It is with the BB shell. My Metal had the same issue. Had I spaced the cranks enough to clear the rear stays the sprocket would have been so far out that the chain would for sure have hit the frame. I had this problem again with my T1 and some Profile, and I used exactly the same fix. Arm, spacer before sprocket (which you would not usually do) then sprocket, then spacer on the sprocket bolt. This brings the sprocket into the frame, whilst allowing the arm to clear the rear stays without bringing the sprocket out by about half a mile.

It is exactly the same fix I used on my Metal.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/uploads.bmxmuseum.com/user-images/41840/img_20200611_144409_15ee238a801607de66e766091a8d6ad.jpg

And no doubt I will be employing exactly the same strategy here.

This bike does not need to be hugely rideable. I want it as a show piece. That said, it needs to function properly, and I do like a challenge lol

I checked Cam Wood's V2, and he has pegs on it. They are pretty skinny, but I know you can grind an angle into the thick end of the peg easy enough. I have a belt file, so yeah that won't pose much of an issue smile


Limb by Limb we are gon cut dem down,
send fi the hacksaw, take out de tongue.

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#28370 2021-05-04 1:56pm

Forhisglory_1
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Re: S&M hoarders unite

Ahh the woes of crank alignment, chain alignment, brake fitment/adjustments, and tire width! They are one of the things I hate about this era of bikes but at the same time I love this era of bikes!


For the right price everything is for sale.
I love Jesus and BMX.
Check out my blog at awakenosleeper

My struggle with being faithful
https://bmxmuseum.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=795894

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#28371 2021-05-04 3:21pm

AlurencatBMX
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Re: S&M hoarders unite

As machines and machining progresses tolerances get smaller. They are now literally on the edge. Thankfully I've built quite a few odd ball bikes that had known issues. Probably why I got them cheap lol

I've not been beaten yet !


Limb by Limb we are gon cut dem down,
send fi the hacksaw, take out de tongue.

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#28372 2021-05-04 3:33pm

Agentxxiii
Pro MemberRichy Rich Dude
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Re: S&M hoarders unite

AlurencatBMX wrote:

As machines and machining progresses tolerances get smaller. They are now literally on the edge. Thankfully I've built quite a few odd ball bikes that had known issues. Probably why I got them cheap lol

I've not been beaten yet !

Great attitude to have. Good insight on the different brakes and positioning. Glad to see someone trying the different brakes and knowing he can get one to work.
The same issue arose on a pair of forks lately...that guy just got new forks instead of trying a different brake.
Your persistence will pay off Cat.


Time machine wanted!

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#28373 2021-05-04 3:42pm

AlurencatBMX
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Re: S&M hoarders unite

Agentxxiii wrote:

AlurencatBMX wrote:

As machines and machining progresses tolerances get smaller. They are now literally on the edge. Thankfully I've built quite a few odd ball bikes that had known issues. Probably why I got them cheap lol

I've not been beaten yet !

Great attitude to have. Good insight on the different brakes and positioning. Glad to see someone trying the different brakes and knowing he can get one to work.
The same issue arose on a pair of forks lately...that guy just got new forks instead of trying a different brake.
Your persistence will pay off Cat.

Like I said I reckon S&M are using an original 990. You can literally move those in and out of the wheel and angle all hell out of them. The issue, IMO, is brake makers. I read about the Mission and I know it's quite skinny so has good clearance. However, with any modern drive train your brake is going to be MM from the tyre.

You can't really expect them to just buy every brake on the market to make sure it works. If the brake arm itself had more meat on it? I would happily get a small round file and elongate the hole to bring the pads up more. Maybe I could squeeze a few mm out of that if the worst comes to the worst.

I tell you what though I am mad grateful to the guys who have posted the info. Otherwise I would have had a fresh painted frame and be working out these issues on that, after the fact.

I also duly noted that Kink supply both the Desist (the nice CNC one) and the Cease (the cast cheaper Mission part, they are exactly the same design) with Kool Stop pads. These ones.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/uploads.bmxmuseum.com/user-images/41840/kool-stop-bmx-bremsschuhe-2019110491328-66091cd388d.jpg

Look how skinny they are ! there's hardly anything to them. However, they will know what we don't. And that is, fat pads won't work on modern frames. I thought that was really weird at first. Like "WTF? Kink sent me a mountain bike set of brake pads !" but it all makes sense now.

ICR what I did with the ones that came with the Mission. I may have re-used them on my T1. Either way they are here somewhere and if I need them I can find them lol

In fact yeah, I did. That is why I have those Proper screechers there. Another way to fix that is simply to buy a die, and thread the pad down much further so you can get it tighter to the arm. Doing that allows you to run the brake arms closer to the wheel, which in turn creates lots of space up top for the tyre.


Limb by Limb we are gon cut dem down,
send fi the hacksaw, take out de tongue.

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#28374 2021-05-08 11:16am

AlurencatBMX
Pro MemberLimey Bastard
From: West Sussex UK
Registered: 2010-04-09
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Re: S&M hoarders unite

Has any one painted their head badge black?

I started to try and polish mine as it looks a bit grimy but nothing much happened. Maybe I need to use something more coarse?


Limb by Limb we are gon cut dem down,
send fi the hacksaw, take out de tongue.

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#28375 2021-05-08 1:29pm

BDUBinVegas
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Re: S&M hoarders unite

I haven’t seen one painted black, but I have seen people use a fine tip brush and paint the letters to match the accent color of their build. Sorry no pics. Just seen it done. Haven’t done it myself.

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