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#51 2017-01-31 8:35pm

OG'89
sloppy headset
From: Hamilton, Canada
Registered: 2011-09-01
Posts: 2943
Bikes: 16

Re: Basic Bykes Co. -- Catchall of information regarding BBC

^ **likes**


43! Ahahahahahaha... 43.

WTB (long-term projects): 90's Dirt Master f/f, Block f/f, anything DBI, Schwinn SuperStock, 'Dave Cullinan' Robinson f/f, anything WAL, Homeless Mack.

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#52 2017-01-31 10:13pm

heytrid
Museum Newbie
From: Calgary, Alberta
Registered: 2017-01-15
Posts: 13

Re: Basic Bykes Co. -- Catchall of information regarding BBC

I have always wanted one of these frames, great article.

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#53 2017-01-31 10:17pm

JHARJO
Pro Member
Registered: 2012-07-25
Posts: 1993
Bikes: 2

Re: Basic Bykes Co. -- Catchall of information regarding BBC

This is just amazing. I love it. Thanks for putting this together OG!!!


"If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything"

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#54 2017-02-01 8:45am

OG'89
sloppy headset
From: Hamilton, Canada
Registered: 2011-09-01
Posts: 2943
Bikes: 16

Re: Basic Bykes Co. -- Catchall of information regarding BBC

Any new info or pics is always welcomed!

Right on J.


43! Ahahahahahaha... 43.

WTB (long-term projects): 90's Dirt Master f/f, Block f/f, anything DBI, Schwinn SuperStock, 'Dave Cullinan' Robinson f/f, anything WAL, Homeless Mack.

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#55 2017-02-05 10:31am

OG'89
sloppy headset
From: Hamilton, Canada
Registered: 2011-09-01
Posts: 2943
Bikes: 16

Re: Basic Bykes Co. -- Catchall of information regarding BBC

Some new stuff I've found:

Top/down tube detail of c.1996 STH decals (thanks suicidepan):
http://uploads.bmxmuseum.com/user-images/74011/img_373058976ec22e.jpg

detail of a 1996-7 Millennium stem:
http://uploads.bmxmuseum.com/user-images/74011/img_373158976ef201.jpg

detail of a 1995 STH top tube decal:
http://uploads.bmxmuseum.com/user-images/74011/img_373258976f3632.jpg

Again thanks to suicidepan, Head Tube decal on the 1996-7 STH.
http://uploads.bmxmuseum.com/user-images/74011/img_373358976f5348.jpg


43! Ahahahahahaha... 43.

WTB (long-term projects): 90's Dirt Master f/f, Block f/f, anything DBI, Schwinn SuperStock, 'Dave Cullinan' Robinson f/f, anything WAL, Homeless Mack.

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#56 2017-02-05 10:43am

OG'89
sloppy headset
From: Hamilton, Canada
Registered: 2011-09-01
Posts: 2943
Bikes: 16

Re: Basic Bykes Co. -- Catchall of information regarding BBC

1995 BCB sold on the Museum in 2012. Seller said he had owned it since 1997, but it's definitely a 95. Could be he had the dates wrong, or could be the shop he bought it from just had it as old stock. Forks are Standards, as are the bars (Strip.)

http://uploads.bmxmuseum.com/user-images/74011/basic589771ea27.jpg

Last edited by OG'89 (2017-02-05 10:44am)


43! Ahahahahahaha... 43.

WTB (long-term projects): 90's Dirt Master f/f, Block f/f, anything DBI, Schwinn SuperStock, 'Dave Cullinan' Robinson f/f, anything WAL, Homeless Mack.

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#57 2017-02-05 7:20pm

D1976
Pro Member
From: Atlanta, Georgia
Registered: 2011-08-03
Posts: 727

Re: Basic Bykes Co. -- Catchall of information regarding BBC

wadeaminute wrote:

coffin2death wrote:

I am intrigued by the canti front brake setup. I immediately though of a pic I had seen of G Sport George's cantilever fork. Was it anything like this?! .http://uploads.bmxmuseum.com/user-image … 001eab.jpg

The first version, done in Edmonton by Big Al Mohr, featured a Cannondale Force 40 setup and went through spaghetti cable housing and came from the side. The refined version that I and others used came from the centre, as with the ugly version above. If you find the very first 20 Inch Video Magazine, you can see me being interviewed about it. It made both the Hutch version and the Bully version look silly, and worked amazingly. Too good, perhaps.

We were running this setup before 990s appeared on the front.

Why do you think it never caught on? It's lighter and pulls as good or better than a U-brake, right? The story I was always told was cantis and V brakes won't work for freestyle because they grab so well the mounts will tear away from the frame, or someone will step on a mount riding flat and snap them off.

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#58 2017-02-05 8:14pm

cbrstar
Expert
From: Alberta Canada
Registered: 2016-07-25
Posts: 785

Re: Basic Bykes Co. -- Catchall of information regarding BBC

D1976 wrote:

wadeaminute wrote:

coffin2death wrote:

I am intrigued by the canti front brake setup. I immediately though of a pic I had seen of G Sport George's cantilever fork. Was it anything like this?! .http://uploads.bmxmuseum.com/user-image … 001eab.jpg

The first version, done in Edmonton by Big Al Mohr, featured a Cannondale Force 40 setup and went through spaghetti cable housing and came from the side. The refined version that I and others used came from the centre, as with the ugly version above. If you find the very first 20 Inch Video Magazine, you can see me being interviewed about it. It made both the Hutch version and the Bully version look silly, and worked amazingly. Too good, perhaps.

We were running this setup before 990s appeared on the front.

Why do you think it never caught on? It's lighter and pulls as good or better than a U-brake, right? The story I was always told was cantis and V brakes won't work for freestyle because they grab so well the mounts will tear away from the frame, or someone will step on a mount riding flat and snap them off.

There's also that your shoes can get annoyingly caught on them. At least that's a complaint my friend had.

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#59 2017-02-05 8:24pm

OG'89
sloppy headset
From: Hamilton, Canada
Registered: 2011-09-01
Posts: 2943
Bikes: 16

Re: Basic Bykes Co. -- Catchall of information regarding BBC

The lack of mass provided by the brake itself vs. Stopping power... I'd be worried about the mounts, for sure.


43! Ahahahahahaha... 43.

WTB (long-term projects): 90's Dirt Master f/f, Block f/f, anything DBI, Schwinn SuperStock, 'Dave Cullinan' Robinson f/f, anything WAL, Homeless Mack.

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#60 2017-02-05 10:01pm

wadeaminute
Pro Memberwadeayear
From: Winnipeg, Canada
Registered: 2014-04-25
Posts: 575

Re: Basic Bykes Co. -- Catchall of information regarding BBC

D1976 wrote:

wadeaminute wrote:

coffin2death wrote:

I am intrigued by the canti front brake setup. I immediately though of a pic I had seen of G Sport George's cantilever fork. Was it anything like this?! .http://uploads.bmxmuseum.com/user-image … 001eab.jpg

The first version, done in Edmonton by Big Al Mohr, featured a Cannondale Force 40 setup and went through spaghetti cable housing and came from the side. The refined version that I and others used came from the centre, as with the ugly version above. If you find the very first 20 Inch Video Magazine, you can see me being interviewed about it. It made both the Hutch version and the Bully version look silly, and worked amazingly. Too good, perhaps.

We were running this setup before 990s appeared on the front.

Why do you think it never caught on? It's lighter and pulls as good or better than a U-brake, right? The story I was always told was cantis and V brakes won't work for freestyle because they grab so well the mounts will tear away from the frame, or someone will step on a mount riding flat and snap them off.

I think that part of it is that BMX culture is always a bit conservative and backward. Think about it - we have stuck with U-Brakes since 1987 - 30 years  - and the rest of the bike industry gave up on them 25+ years ago. Another part is that the tricks evolved in a way that lead people to want brakes that didn't lock up. The cantis and V-brakes that I had on my forks over 20 years ago worked too well for feathering. They sort of had on and off.
Once the 990 mounts were coming stock on forks, it just became too easy / convenient to go with 990s on the front. I switched when I got some 990 forks from Woody Itson / GT in 1998 and have never gone back.

Last edited by wadeaminute (2017-02-05 10:02pm)

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#61 2017-02-05 11:03pm

cbrstar
Expert
From: Alberta Canada
Registered: 2016-07-25
Posts: 785

Re: Basic Bykes Co. -- Catchall of information regarding BBC

coffin2death wrote:

I am intrigued by the canti front brake setup. I immediately though of a pic I had seen of G Sport George's cantilever fork. Was it anything like this?! .http://uploads.bmxmuseum.com/user-image … 001eab.jpg

One major problem I see with this, and why I wouldn't have bought one. Is there's no safety hook (Not sure what it's really called) to prevent the cable catching on the tire if your brake cable snaps. It's a lawsuit waiting to happen!

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#62 2017-02-06 12:54pm

OG'89
sloppy headset
From: Hamilton, Canada
Registered: 2011-09-01
Posts: 2943
Bikes: 16

Re: Basic Bykes Co. -- Catchall of information regarding BBC

wadeaminute wrote:

D1976 wrote:

wadeaminute wrote:


The first version, done in Edmonton by Big Al Mohr, featured a Cannondale Force 40 setup and went through spaghetti cable housing and came from the side. The refined version that I and others used came from the centre, as with the ugly version above. If you find the very first 20 Inch Video Magazine, you can see me being interviewed about it. It made both the Hutch version and the Bully version look silly, and worked amazingly. Too good, perhaps.

We were running this setup before 990s appeared on the front.

Why do you think it never caught on? It's lighter and pulls as good or better than a U-brake, right? The story I was always told was cantis and V brakes won't work for freestyle because they grab so well the mounts will tear away from the frame, or someone will step on a mount riding flat and snap them off.

I think that part of it is that BMX culture is always a bit conservative and backward. Think about it - we have stuck with U-Brakes since 1987 - 30 years  - and the rest of the bike industry gave up on them 25+ years ago. Another part is that the tricks evolved in a way that lead people to want brakes that didn't lock up. The cantis and V-brakes that I had on my forks over 20 years ago worked too well for feathering. They sort of had on and off.
Once the 990 mounts were coming stock on forks, it just became too easy / convenient to go with 990s on the front. I switched when I got some 990 forks from Woody Itson / GT in 1998 and have never gone back.

This.

cbrstar -- I see your point, but I'm not at all sure the hardcores at Basic were concerned about lawsuits at that time! Just better braking.


43! Ahahahahahaha... 43.

WTB (long-term projects): 90's Dirt Master f/f, Block f/f, anything DBI, Schwinn SuperStock, 'Dave Cullinan' Robinson f/f, anything WAL, Homeless Mack.

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#63 2017-02-06 12:59pm

jray02r1
Pro Member
Registered: 2014-03-24
Posts: 1603
Bikes: 5

Re: Basic Bykes Co. -- Catchall of information regarding BBC

Not to mention, v-brakes are much larger than u-brakes.  On a bmx, compact is good.

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#64 2017-02-11 6:26am

OG'89
sloppy headset
From: Hamilton, Canada
Registered: 2011-09-01
Posts: 2943
Bikes: 16

Re: Basic Bykes Co. -- Catchall of information regarding BBC

http://uploads.bmxmuseum.com/user-images/74011/img_3779589f1ee035.jpg
http://uploads.bmxmuseum.com/user-images/74011/img_3778589f1ee035.jpg

I don't have a full, clear image, but these are the best images I've got of the 1st gen BBC head tube decal


43! Ahahahahahaha... 43.

WTB (long-term projects): 90's Dirt Master f/f, Block f/f, anything DBI, Schwinn SuperStock, 'Dave Cullinan' Robinson f/f, anything WAL, Homeless Mack.

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#65 2017-02-11 12:00pm

sport123
Pro Member
From: Midschoolville
Registered: 2012-02-04
Posts: 1071

Re: Basic Bykes Co. -- Catchall of information regarding BBC

To me canti brakes = Mtb
Never liked them on bmx they just look wrong to me, and for me it's fashion over function I have no doubt that canti stopping power is great, a guy I know was rocking cantis in the 90's and still runs them today and he rides hard and im pretty sure he's never ripped a mount out smile

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#66 2017-02-11 12:15pm

PBR_Streetgang
Expert
From: Philadelphia DMZ
Registered: 2016-03-10
Posts: 699
Bikes: 4

Re: Basic Bykes Co. -- Catchall of information regarding BBC

i rode a bully piston with canti brakes for a few months in 1993 and it was a nightmare. the front brakes (powerforks) were a pain to dial in and you had to keep lubing and adjusting the cable lever/arm cam thing and it never worked right. the rears worked better but stuck out very far from the frame and i still have scars on my ankles from the ends of the arms. also i was learning manuals at the time and i liked to feather my brakes a little to keep from looping out (i have never been a good rider) and as wade said, the cantis were either on or off, no feathering in between. Vbrakes would have been better i guess, but that frame was such a POS that it didn't last long enough to find out


"You want it one way, but it's the other way."

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#67 2017-02-13 6:48am

OG'89
sloppy headset
From: Hamilton, Canada
Registered: 2011-09-01
Posts: 2943
Bikes: 16

Re: Basic Bykes Co. -- Catchall of information regarding BBC

If you ever wondered whether there was any truth to the notion that Rick refused the batch of Gardner Lengthy's and Shorty's that eventually became Basic's 1st gen. bikes, here's a Gardner-made frame that PASSED and became an SBC. Note how off the right side of the platform is, and how they solved it at the dropout, with about 1/4" of weld...

Now -- I'm not necessarily saying this lays the story to rest (the story being whether the frames were rejected from Gardner and ALL had issues, or whether Rick couldn't / wouldn't pay) but it certainly seals the deal that at least some Gardner-made frames from the early run had issues. And remember, this is one of the frames that were accepted as SBC's.

http://uploads.bmxmuseum.com/user-images/74011/basic-158a1c6b896.jpg
http://uploads.bmxmuseum.com/user-images/74011/basic-258a1c6bea0.jpg


43! Ahahahahahaha... 43.

WTB (long-term projects): 90's Dirt Master f/f, Block f/f, anything DBI, Schwinn SuperStock, 'Dave Cullinan' Robinson f/f, anything WAL, Homeless Mack.

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#68 2017-02-13 7:35am

Coco
Moderator
From: Regina, Saskatchewan Canada
Registered: 2011-03-03
Posts: 8036
For Sale: 2

Re: Basic Bykes Co. -- Catchall of information regarding BBC

OG'89 wrote:

The names Big City Bastard & Small Town Hicks came from two Canadian’s: John Stewart who lived in Winnipeg and John Sutton who lived outside the city. They just ripped on each other all the time and thats how the names came about.

Cool info. John Sutton was from Regina  and lived here. I played in a band with him back then. We used to skate but John and his buddies Ivan and Jerk Boy used to ride along with us. I think John went back and forth between Winnipeg around then but spent more time here.

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#69 2017-02-13 8:07am

flatpro
Pro Member
Registered: 2015-07-31
Posts: 195
Bikes: 4

Re: Basic Bykes Co. -- Catchall of information regarding BBC

Just saw a Basic Sluggo on ebay the other day. Maybe some of you guys wanna check it out:

http://www.ebay.de/itm/OLD-SCHOOL-BMX-B … Sw5cNYeUQb

btw. I'm looking for two Silencer pegs. If anyone can help, please let me know.

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#70 2017-02-13 8:21am

98brg2d
Pro Member
Registered: 2016-10-14
Posts: 296

Re: Basic Bykes Co. -- Catchall of information regarding BBC

Just for completeness:

http://bmxmuseum.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=721876

I think the discussions are related enough that a link is deserved.


Bikes: 2004 S&M Black Bike, 201? S&M ATF, 1999 GT Speed Series 24, 2001 Schwinn Super Stock 1, 1999 TNT King of Dirt, 2001 Standard STA
WTB: Standard Bykes Bash Fork Decals 2000-ish

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#71 2017-02-13 10:03am

spyker
Freakzilla
From: Shangri-La
Registered: 2009-11-19
Posts: 10925

Re: Basic Bykes Co. -- Catchall of information regarding BBC

OG'89 wrote:

If you ever wondered whether there was any truth to the notion that Rick refused the batch of Gardner Lengthy's and Shorty's that eventually became Basic's 1st gen. bikes, here's a Gardner-made frame that PASSED and became an SBC. Note how off the right side of the platform is, and how they solved it at the dropout, with about 1/4" of weld...

Now -- I'm not necessarily saying this lays the story to rest (the story being whether the frames were rejected from Gardner and ALL had issues, or whether Rick couldn't / wouldn't pay) but it certainly seals the deal that at least some Gardner-made frames from the early run had issues. And remember, this is one of the frames that were accepted as SBC's.

http://uploads.bmxmuseum.com/user-image … c6b896.jpg
http://uploads.bmxmuseum.com/user-image … c6bea0.jpg

Those are horrible welds.They look like something you see on department store bikes.Was that frame welded up with a mig?


Made In Taiwan #1.....You Have Chosen Wisely!  Guaranteed Strength

Would you trust a lazy drunk to weld up a frame that will be ridden hard?

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#72 2017-02-13 10:11am

fortyfoursomething
Pro Member
From: Toronto, ON
Registered: 2013-08-28
Posts: 146
Bikes: 3
For Sale: 6

Re: Basic Bykes Co. -- Catchall of information regarding BBC

OG'89 wrote:

http://uploads.bmxmuseum.com/user-image … 1ee035.jpg
http://uploads.bmxmuseum.com/user-image … 1ee035.jpg

I don't have a full, clear image, but these are the best images I've got of the 1st gen BBC head tube decal

I'll post a few better pics of my fork stickers.


union made ben davis quality is on jones.....

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#73 2017-02-13 10:13am

OG'89
sloppy headset
From: Hamilton, Canada
Registered: 2011-09-01
Posts: 2943
Bikes: 16

Re: Basic Bykes Co. -- Catchall of information regarding BBC

Hey Spyker -- I'm not sure. I wouldn't imagine so. The SBC / Basic Bykes production was Gardner's first foray into bikes, but their previous work was in Automation and the Automotive sector. I would imagine Tig, as both of those sectors require pretty exacting specs. I think Gardner (at first) just thought they had an easy gig -- "oh, they're just kids' bikes." Their later production welds and fit are good. See Ketch as an example.


43! Ahahahahahaha... 43.

WTB (long-term projects): 90's Dirt Master f/f, Block f/f, anything DBI, Schwinn SuperStock, 'Dave Cullinan' Robinson f/f, anything WAL, Homeless Mack.

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#74 2017-02-13 10:14am

OG'89
sloppy headset
From: Hamilton, Canada
Registered: 2011-09-01
Posts: 2943
Bikes: 16

Re: Basic Bykes Co. -- Catchall of information regarding BBC

fortyfoursomething wrote:

OG'89 wrote:

http://uploads.bmxmuseum.com/user-image … 1ee035.jpg
http://uploads.bmxmuseum.com/user-image … 1ee035.jpg

I don't have a full, clear image, but these are the best images I've got of the 1st gen BBC head tube decal

I'll post a few better pics of my fork stickers.

big_smilecool


43! Ahahahahahaha... 43.

WTB (long-term projects): 90's Dirt Master f/f, Block f/f, anything DBI, Schwinn SuperStock, 'Dave Cullinan' Robinson f/f, anything WAL, Homeless Mack.

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#75 2017-02-13 10:16am

fortyfoursomething
Pro Member
From: Toronto, ON
Registered: 2013-08-28
Posts: 146
Bikes: 3
For Sale: 6

Re: Basic Bykes Co. -- Catchall of information regarding BBC

Here, L and R.
http://uploads.bmxmuseum.com/user-images/199968/fork158a1f7fd16.jpg
http://uploads.bmxmuseum.com/user-images/199968/fork258a1f7fd10.jpg


union made ben davis quality is on jones.....

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