So where's the gain? BMX  RSS Feed

#1 2013-01-02 10:20pm

La Dolce
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Registered: 2012-09-04
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So where's the gain? BMX

I always see guys write.  "Buy a bike with modern geometry."  Or but then i bought a bike with modern geometry.

I have been researching geometry on and off for weeks.  I can't find the great difference between new school Geo and Old school freestyle frames?   (I am using ball park average #'s).  Everything is still like 74 head angle and 20TT.  Sure some chain stays are like a 1/2 shorter but than again i see all these NS guys saying you don't want too short of a chain stay because you will loop out too easy in a manual.  Modern dirt jumpers are running 21TT but so was OS race bikes jumping dirt doubles.

So what am i missing?  Run out and but modern Geo, but it's the same specs as some old freestyles.

Fill in the blank ______

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#2 2013-01-02 10:22pm

La Dolce
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Re: So where's the gain? BMX

Forks look to be the same length too.  No post on Slam or not slammed seats!

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#3 2013-01-02 11:34pm

DEADREAPER649
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From: SE, Wisconsin
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Re: So where's the gain? BMX

Most of the OS bikes I have seen are 18 or 19 inch tt.

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#4 2013-01-02 11:51pm

harlen
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From: Waco, TX
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Re: So where's the gain? BMX

No the geo isnt the same the best way to know or learn is to ride em. Forks have changed a whole lot hell everythings changed since I started riding in 74 into the early 80s. I dont know what modern geo is, but I know theres a big difference between then and now. Now a days you can get chain stays from 12 to 14.5, headtubes up to 76 degrees, bb 11.2 to 12.8, forks zero offset to 35mm, tt 17 to 22.5 and stems 25mm to 55mm. Those are numbers I know off the top of my head. You couldnt be that selective when I started.....Btw I like the short rears makes front come up easier its all about personal preference. Oh the big question have you even rode a new bike?


45 year old New School BMX Rider
Old dog learning new tricks

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#5 2013-01-03 3:24am

MasterBri
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Re: So where's the gain? BMX

The new school bikes are using non-Euclidean geometry. This is probably where you're getting confused big_smilebig_smilelol


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#6 2013-01-03 3:48am

troynlori
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From: Virginia Beach, VA
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Re: So where's the gain? BMX

It would be easy if someone would make an overlay image....


Blue is gone, gone, gone....

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#7 2013-01-03 4:25am

JC82
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From: Chi-land, IL
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Re: So where's the gain? BMX

Head tube angles are steeper 75°, rear ends are shorter by atleast 2", lower bottom bracket height, lower standover height, plus theres construction differences like integrated head tubes, fork races, seat clamps, and even integrated seat posts. Removable 990 mounts and mid, spanish, or euro bb. Most tube sets are internally butted these days which makes them stronger and stiffer then something thats 20 years old. Its technology my friend, you wouldnt tell me theres not much difference between an 80s camaro and a brand new one would you?


On the look out for Bonzai frames, Cardboard Lords Emanicaptor/Liberator frames, Hawk frames, and anything BRAND X!!!

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#8 2013-01-03 6:42am

La Dolce
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Re: So where's the gain? BMX

I am up on the technology advancements.  I was looking to understand the Geo differences.  Even tho the bikes look different to look at the numbers were looking close to the same to me.

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#9 2013-01-03 6:44am

La Dolce
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Re: So where's the gain? BMX

Oh, and i have not rode a new one... Yet.

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#10 2013-01-03 8:27am

rocs8x9x
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From: Appleton, WI
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Re: So where's the gain? BMX

the metal is not 25 years old wink


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#11 2013-01-03 10:48am

Joey a
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Registered: 2012-11-29
Posts: 432

Re: So where's the gain? BMX

Dont ask and ride. Then you will know.


My dirt jumping black market riot has more pop,turns quicker, and is far more nimble than my 2001 GT bmx thumper(dirt jumper bmx)Thats with 26inch wheels and its larger but the geo is new school.

So if down hill/dirt jumping mountain bikes have gotten that much sharper and nimble. Think about how far a bmx has come....


My 2012 Fit atkin signature modle that I just got is truly amazing compared to my GT 1998 performer. So my performer and GT is "mid school" they feel so out dated. Comfortable yes, can you do tricks on them? yes! Are they still good bikes? YUP.

But the new school stuff is so much better, you can see why kids are doing professional tricks at the age of 11-14 now. They bikes just want to spin and they are so light!



My FIT weighs in at 24lbs stock! 24lbs! My dirt jump mtb is around 26(with heavy parts!) my older GT bikes? Well there a little over 30 pounds......

My racing bmx robinson was heavyer than my NS school fit!


They are great but drop the money for a very high end complete one. You need to spend money these days to get full chromo parts.

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#12 2013-01-03 10:50am

Joey a
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Registered: 2012-11-29
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Re: So where's the gain? BMX

They slight changes in Geo makes a big difference:)


My bike is 20.75


Most NS bikes are 20.25-21.75? They have gotten longer but with sort rear ends. Man have sort rear ends is great!

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#13 2013-01-03 10:52am

Joey a
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Registered: 2012-11-29
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Re: So where's the gain? BMX

La Dolce wrote:

I am up on the technology advancements.  I was looking to understand the Geo differences.  Even tho the bikes look different to look at the numbers were looking close to the same to me.

You can do bunny hop tail whips along with bunny hope full 360s like nothing. People are doing bunny hop 360 tail whips:P


My GT feels like its glued onto the ground.

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#14 2013-01-03 12:24pm

Dart Swinger
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Registered: 2009-04-07
Posts: 100
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Re: So where's the gain? BMX

I bought a 2010 CycleCraft cruiser to replace a mid school TNT stovepipe 24 and it's easy to tell them apart when riding mostly because of the short rear traingle the CC has. When I ride the new CC it feels like the rear tire is right under my feet compared to the TNT.

As far as getting the front end to come up at speed the CC comes up easier, but only to a certain point and then it stops. I have never looped out on it, or even came close. The TNT I had was a little harder to get the front tire off the ground initially, but once there you could do wheelies and manuals as long as you wanted to. I can't even begin to do a manual on the CC as far as I could on my old TNT.

Both frames are steel so the amount of flex is similiar.

I never kept track of how much the TNT weighed. It didn't feel heavy when I had it, but I suspect the CC may be a pound or so lighter just from minor updates like no 1"stem shaft, a smaller BB setup etc........

The head tube angles are very close so the steering feel between the two is a draw.

TNT actually has the longer top tube of the two bikes, some of that is because the seat tube is kicked back father.

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#15 2013-01-03 1:00pm

maddmaxivan
Intermediate
From: wayland ny 14572
Registered: 2012-11-02
Posts: 343

Re: So where's the gain? BMX

i seriously think i bought the wrong NS bikes,mine are too heavy and feel awkward...neutral
just reading what you guys have posted so far,is illuminating.

whats a good bike/recommendation for a guy whos 5`9,175lbs and does jumps/street riding/vert?
the lighter the better,but it has to be strong cool

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#16 2013-01-03 1:12pm

Joey a
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Registered: 2012-11-29
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#17 2013-01-03 3:10pm

harlen
The Waco Kid
From: Waco, TX
Registered: 2009-03-10
Posts: 1427
Bikes: 7
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Re: So where's the gain? BMX

maddmaxivan wrote:

i seriously think i bought the wrong NS bikes,mine are too heavy and feel awkward...neutral
just reading what you guys have posted so far,is illuminating.

whats a good bike/recommendation for a guy whos 5`9,175lbs and does jumps/street riding/vert?
the lighter the better,but it has to be strong cool

I recommend ride a bunch of bikes with different geo and figure it for yourself. Your the one that knows what you like. Im 6'2 if I asked for recommendations the first suggestion wouldve been that pos se floval or quad 24's or just 24s in general. Then others wouldve said get a 22tt they all wouldve been wrong because they dont know how I ride. From each bike Ive owned I pick out what I liked about em. A lot of trial and error I finally got the idealistic bike I want, but I see where I can make mild changes. Pretty happy with my rider.


45 year old New School BMX Rider
Old dog learning new tricks

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