Black Half Link or Black KMC 410 ? Help  RSS Feed

#1 2012-06-27 8:32pm

77stroker2
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Black Half Link or Black KMC 410 ? Help

Ok I Hear That Half Links Break? Ok I Was Going To Put A Shadow Black Half Link Chain On The 2009 Haro X4 Because I Put A New Profile 28t On It,And Yes I Had To Open The Hole Up For A Standard Chain Ring Adapter lollol ! Now B-4 I Get The Debate Up and Rolling On You Guys, Here Is MY Question That I Need Help With Please. Since I Have The New 20011 Haro 500.2, It Re-Tired The 2009 Haro X4 big_smile The Haro X4 Is Now A Show Bike,And A Ride Here and There. I'm Trying To Keep It As Is In A Climate Controlled Room,So 20 Years,In Hopes To Look The Same smile . Here's The Question Since U All Know That Now ! For A Show Bike,With A Ride Here And There And Really Laying Into It When Ridden, Which Do I Go With ? The Shadow Half Link,Or A Good O'l KMC 410 ? I Don't Want A Half Link To Snap On Me By Laying Into It ! Is This Ture On The Half Links ? Do They Break ? I Know One Thing About Them That Turns My Nose, Is They Are Heavy yikes !  Thx And All Comments Including Bashing On The Type's Of Chains and Even On My O'l Heep lollollollollollollol Thx Guys !

http://i1116.photobucket.com/albums/k566/shitmyrompers/Loose%20Bikes/P1070642.jpg
http://i1116.photobucket.com/albums/k566/shitmyrompers/Loose%20Bikes/P1070666.jpg
http://i1116.photobucket.com/albums/k566/shitmyrompers/Loose%20Bikes/P1070667.jpg
http://i1116.photobucket.com/albums/k566/shitmyrompers/Loose%20Bikes/P1070673.jpg
http://i1116.photobucket.com/albums/k566/shitmyrompers/Loose%20Bikes/P1070679.jpg

It Sit's Like This, Waiting For A New Black Chain,But I'm Confused sad ! I Want to Put One On A.S.A.P. ! big_smile

http://i1116.photobucket.com/albums/k566/shitmyrompers/Loose%20Bikes/P1070675.jpg


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Left Old Junk ( I Mean Old School)  For New School! Love "THE DARK SIDE"!
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#2 2012-06-27 10:35pm

77stroker2
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Re: Black Half Link or Black KMC 410 ? Help

No One ? sad


Ken=The Number 1 Poser !
Desert Storm Vet. US Navy FC2  ( 1986-1991 )

Left Old Junk ( I Mean Old School)  For New School! Love "THE DARK SIDE"!
As Craig Ferguson Would Say," I Look Forward To Your Hate Mail " !
[img]http://i1116.photobucket.com/albums/k566/shitmyrompers/Modern%20Muscle%20Cars/aaf1aff9-d865-45cf-b141-8ba083757654_zps8a8fc026.jpg[/img]

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#3 2012-06-27 11:31pm

Stoner71
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Re: Black Half Link or Black KMC 410 ? Help

All I know is that dudes like Barry Nobles rock half link chains, if it works for a dude with that kind of horse power, it most certainly works for the rest of us...........I bought Shadow half links for both of my S&M DB 24's and I love them. I've seen forums with dudes claiming a list of a dozen broken chains and blah, blah, blah..............If there is 1 thing I learned from being a decade long road cyclist who was lucky enough to get very nice, top end rides for free, its that 95% of people who make claims like this make them because they need an ego boost and what better than to claim your watt output be so high you snap metal. Im not saying it isnt possible, anything can and will happen over a long period of time on 2 wheels. But.....for the most part, when a top level pro who has enormous power to weight ratio's cranking out watts like the Hoover dam, they are well above and beyond anyone who rides for fun. So in my humble opinion, half links are safe and work well with these little 25T sprockets.


Damn it feels good to be out of the build game!!!!!

After I finish my current build!!!!!! lol

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#4 2012-06-28 12:04am

77stroker2
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Re: Black Half Link or Black KMC 410 ? Help

Stoner71 wrote:

All I know is that dudes like Barry Nobles rock half link chains, if it works for a dude with that kind of horse power, it most certainly works for the rest of us...........I bought Shadow half links for both of my S&M DB 24's and I love them. I've seen forums with dudes claiming a list of a dozen broken chains and blah, blah, blah..............If there is 1 thing I learned from being a decade long road cyclist who was lucky enough to get very nice, top end rides for free, its that 95% of people who make claims like this make them because they need an ego boost and what better than to claim your watt output be so high you snap metal. Im not saying it isnt possible, anything can and will happen over a long period of time on 2 wheels. But.....for the most part, when a top level pro who has enormous power to weight ratio's cranking out watts like the Hoover dam, they are well above and beyond anyone who rides for fun. So in my humble opinion, half links are safe and work well with these little 25T sprockets.

I see your point,and thx for posting,but I hear thru a couple of riding buddies tht a half link works great on bigger sprockets ? For instants 12t and bigger on rear wheel and 38t taller on the front sprocket, but half links work like JUNK on the 25/9 gearing ? The smaller the sprocket/clog the half links bind up,which led to them snapping,to as the 410 rolls smoother over the 25/9 ? I just don't want to lay into it and eat crossbar,which I know that can happen at anytime with any chain ! This suck yikes lol

Last edited by 77stroker2 (2012-06-28 12:06am)


Ken=The Number 1 Poser !
Desert Storm Vet. US Navy FC2  ( 1986-1991 )

Left Old Junk ( I Mean Old School)  For New School! Love "THE DARK SIDE"!
As Craig Ferguson Would Say," I Look Forward To Your Hate Mail " !
[img]http://i1116.photobucket.com/albums/k566/shitmyrompers/Modern%20Muscle%20Cars/aaf1aff9-d865-45cf-b141-8ba083757654_zps8a8fc026.jpg[/img]

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#5 2012-06-28 4:33am

jaymeatsack
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Re: Black Half Link or Black KMC 410 ? Help

Half link chains do have a tendency to stretch, a lot. The also wear the teeth on drivers & sprockets if not properly looked after. I work on quite a few bikes and those that have been running half links for a considerable amount of time all seem to develop "shark teeth." I've snapped three myself (two shadows & a kmc pintle) and I am not hard on bikes and have only snapped two conventional chains over a fifteen year period. I know they work for some people but not for me.

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#6 2012-06-28 4:51am

srootster
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Re: Black Half Link or Black KMC 410 ? Help

i couldn't snap one, but it's not a strong link by design. i'm an engineer by trade and half links look ridiculous to me. it's inherently weaker than a standard link. every time you put force on it, it will try to pull the bent link flat. pull on a flat piece of paper and then bend a piece of paper in an S pattern and pull on it. what happens?

again... i could not break one but i see no point to the design other than minor adjustability. it'll bind eventually by nature no matter how badass you are.

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#7 2012-06-28 5:16am

suicidepan
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Re: Black Half Link or Black KMC 410 ? Help

Half links are plenty strong I have half links that are four years old that are still perfect and have seen plenty abuse. There are half links that are light I`ve been using mechanics hollow pin/hollow link chains for a long time with no failures. Then theres the worn teeth issue which once again is not due to the chain it`s due to people not knowing how to build bikes. Improper sprocket alignment, improper chain tension and cheap sprockets = premature tooth wear. My S&M LTF is my street/dirt jumping bike it`s running 22/8 gearing and a shadow chain it`s been this way for the last three years. The sprocket and driver teeth still look new and the chain is unstretched and never has needed not even one adjustment once again going back to knowing how to properly build a bike. All of my new school and most of my mid school bikes get ridden hard and occasionally crashed lol So even if you really ride I would buy what you like it`s going to hold up to whatever abuse you throw at it as long as you install the chain and build the bike properly. smile


"Living well is the best revenge" "Give till it hurts"  - Drchopper

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#8 2012-06-28 7:03am

midschooler
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Re: Black Half Link or Black KMC 410 ? Help

I dont see why youd want a full half link chain. If the old full link style worked for how many years on how many different machines why change it? I can see if you need one half link to get the wheel where you need it in the drop out but the whole thing? if it aint broke dont fix it. Id also agree with srootster. Go with the old style. 410 has never let me down.


I pick up what you throw out                                                                                                          Lookin for uncut blast bars!!!!!!!!!!!
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#9 2012-06-28 7:10am

dedmann
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Re: Black Half Link or Black KMC 410 ? Help

i with suicidepan here....
i have been running half-link for 6 years. no issues; NOT 1. everytime a regular chain snaps; i replace it with the half-link. 6 bikes with, and 5 without. i have used numerous brands- shadow (v1&2), eastern, salt, kmc & gusset 3/32. good half-links are heat treated. the quailty isnt the issue here its the installation. things like chain line & tension are huge factors in the life span.  Re-lubricating the chains with proper chain lube is big also. i work in a shop and have installed untold amounts of these chains- no complaints. the ones i sell to the kids who refuse me to put it on; they have problems.
as far as the chain having a poor interface with the sprocket or driver is just asinine!  i totally feel you have this ideal completely backwards. one major reasoning behind the half-link design; is to tightly wrap around compact gearing.  (see figure A) a regular chain cannot achieve this tight wrap, and when it does the inner plates ride on top of driver and not teeth of driver (see fingure B). bad pic i know....in a hurry. see the shiny spots where chain plates ride?
figure A
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-LBptTOU6538/TZxUk03JEhI/AAAAAAAABa4/fCeT666yXOM/s1600/YBN.jpg
figure B
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f50/serritelli1/0123091939.jpg


PLEASE RESPECT CHAT OR I"LL BOOT YA WITH A WARNING!
varokaa tyhmät ympärilläsi - tai tullut yksi[img]http://www.pic4ever.com/images/meditationf.gif[/img]
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#10 2012-06-28 8:43am

suicidepan
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Re: Black Half Link or Black KMC 410 ? Help

midschooler wrote:

I dont see why youd want a full half link chain. If the old full link style worked for how many years on how many different machines why change it? I can see if you need one half link to get the wheel where you need it in the drop out but the whole thing? if it aint broke dont fix it. Id also agree with srootster. Go with the old style. 410 has never let me down.

Looking at your bikes it doesn`t appear you have much experience with new school drives. A full link will work fine with your normal 16t freewheel, but a half link wraps around something like a 8t or 9T driver much better. Half links were designed to give a greater contact area and proper fit for todays micro drive set ups.


"Living well is the best revenge" "Give till it hurts"  - Drchopper

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#11 2012-06-28 9:19am

no body
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Re: Black Half Link or Black KMC 410 ? Help

go with your heart lol but i use a kmc chain big_smile


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#12 2012-06-28 10:00am

spiderpig22
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Re: Black Half Link or Black KMC 410 ? Help

Odyssey Bluebird  and be done with it.  smile


It may be "rare",but its only worth what someone will pay!

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#13 2012-06-28 10:30am

RDB
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From: Decatur, IL
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Re: Black Half Link or Black KMC 410 ? Help

suicidepan wrote:

midschooler wrote:

I dont see why youd want a full half link chain. If the old full link style worked for how many years on how many different machines why change it? I can see if you need one half link to get the wheel where you need it in the drop out but the whole thing? if it aint broke dont fix it. Id also agree with srootster. Go with the old style. 410 has never let me down.

Looking at your bikes it doesn`t appear you have much experience with new school drives. A full link will work fine with your normal 16t freewheel, but a half link wraps around something like a 8t or 9T driver much better. Half links were designed to give a greater contact area and proper fit for todays micro drive set ups.

+1 cool

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#14 2012-06-28 10:40am

spyker
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Re: Black Half Link or Black KMC 410 ? Help

spiderpig22 wrote:

Odyssey Bluebird  and be done with it.  smile

+1000000000000000000000000000000

My friend and I both purchased new chains at the same time,I got the Odyssey Bluebird and he got the Shadow halflink.My Bluebird has yet to stretch and his halflink stretched after a hour of riding.This was almost a year ago,he is constantly adjusting his backwheel to keep his chain tight.


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#15 2012-06-28 1:49pm

adamdawson
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Re: Black Half Link or Black KMC 410 ? Help

srootster wrote:

it's not a strong link by design. i'm an engineer by trade and half links look ridiculous to me. it's inherently weaker than a standard link. every time you put force on it, it will try to pull the bent link flat.

this


but im gonna bite my lip on the subject.....

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#16 2012-06-29 1:56am

77stroker2
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Re: Black Half Link or Black KMC 410 ? Help

Going In Today At The Local New School Bike Shop Down In Turlock,CA. And I'm Letting Matt Choose And Do His Magic ! Thx Guys and We'll See Which One He Does,Then I'll Pic & Post And Let The Bashing Begin yikes lollollol big_smile

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Ken=The Number 1 Poser !
Desert Storm Vet. US Navy FC2  ( 1986-1991 )

Left Old Junk ( I Mean Old School)  For New School! Love "THE DARK SIDE"!
As Craig Ferguson Would Say," I Look Forward To Your Hate Mail " !
[img]http://i1116.photobucket.com/albums/k566/shitmyrompers/Modern%20Muscle%20Cars/aaf1aff9-d865-45cf-b141-8ba083757654_zps8a8fc026.jpg[/img]

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#17 2012-06-29 5:50am

thewhitelarrybird
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Re: Black Half Link or Black KMC 410 ? Help

spyker wrote:

spiderpig22 wrote:

Odyssey Bluebird  and be done with it.  smile

+1000000000000000000000000000000

My friend and I both purchased new chains at the same time,I got the Odyssey Bluebird and he got the Shadow halflink.My Bluebird has yet to stretch and his halflink stretched after a hour of riding.This was almost a year ago,he is constantly adjusting his backwheel to keep his chain tight.

the bluebird is a more expensive KMC chain wink

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#18 2012-06-29 7:22am

suicidepan
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Re: Black Half Link or Black KMC 410 ? Help

Why would you say that you know that you know that you don't like half links because there heavy? The difference in weight between pretty much any whole link or half link is 1oz and the difference between the lightest whole link and lightest half link is around 1\2 oz. There is no way that you can feel the difference of 1oz or less when your riding. People should spend more time riding and testing parts and doing there homework rather than running threads like " what color should I paint my bike " Thinking for yourself and making your own choices will give you better and more satisfying results every time. smile


"Living well is the best revenge" "Give till it hurts"  - Drchopper

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#19 2012-06-29 8:01am

midschooler
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From: Joliet, IL
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Re: Black Half Link or Black KMC 410 ? Help

suicidepan wrote:

midschooler wrote:

I dont see why youd want a full half link chain. If the old full link style worked for how many years on how many different machines why change it? I can see if you need one half link to get the wheel where you need it in the drop out but the whole thing? if it aint broke dont fix it. Id also agree with srootster. Go with the old style. 410 has never let me down.

Looking at your bikes it doesn`t appear you have much experience with new school drives. A full link will work fine with your normal 16t freewheel, but a half link wraps around something like a 8t or 9T driver much better. Half links were designed to give a greater contact area and proper fit for todays micro drive set ups.

While this is true Ive had 9T bikes and I am the neighborhood bike mechanic so I still see plenty of newer bikes. I see where deadman is comming from too. Tho id not just blame the chain for leavng those marks. I remember with my federal hub the valley between the teeth was really shallow against the driver body. I think with a little more engineering they can make it a little more full link friendly.


I pick up what you throw out                                                                                                          Lookin for uncut blast bars!!!!!!!!!!!
O.G.O.A.R.                                                                                                                                                                Midwest BMX

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#20 2012-06-29 8:37am

suicidepan
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Re: Black Half Link or Black KMC 410 ? Help

midschooler wrote:

suicidepan wrote:

midschooler wrote:

I dont see why youd want a full half link chain. If the old full link style worked for how many years on how many different machines why change it? I can see if you need one half link to get the wheel where you need it in the drop out but the whole thing? if it aint broke dont fix it. Id also agree with srootster. Go with the old style. 410 has never let me down.

Looking at your bikes it doesn`t appear you have much experience with new school drives. A full link will work fine with your normal 16t freewheel, but a half link wraps around something like a 8t or 9T driver much better. Half links were designed to give a greater contact area and proper fit for todays micro drive set ups.

While this is true Ive had 9T bikes and I am the neighborhood bike mechanic so I still see plenty of newer bikes. I see where deadman is comming from too. Tho id not just blame the chain for leavng those marks. I remember with my federal hub the valley between the teeth was really shallow against the driver body. I think with a little more engineering they can make it a little more full link friendly.

Yes with alittle more engineering it may be possible to make drivers alittle more full link friendly, we should also take into consideration the tiny dropout sizes of the new frames. lol With half link chains you can make 1/4" at a time adjustments which can be very helpful when trying to set up the gearing and chainstay length that you prefer for your riding style. smile


"Living well is the best revenge" "Give till it hurts"  - Drchopper

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#21 2012-06-29 9:28am

77stroker2
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Re: Black Half Link or Black KMC 410 ? Help

Ok Guys I Get The Point And Me Being A Weight Weenie Sucks yikes lollollollollol Is That Sentence A Pun Or What lollollollol


Ken=The Number 1 Poser !
Desert Storm Vet. US Navy FC2  ( 1986-1991 )

Left Old Junk ( I Mean Old School)  For New School! Love "THE DARK SIDE"!
As Craig Ferguson Would Say," I Look Forward To Your Hate Mail " !
[img]http://i1116.photobucket.com/albums/k566/shitmyrompers/Modern%20Muscle%20Cars/aaf1aff9-d865-45cf-b141-8ba083757654_zps8a8fc026.jpg[/img]

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#22 2012-06-29 9:30am

erdalicious
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Re: Black Half Link or Black KMC 410 ? Help

shoes & fram = nice combo smile


WTB: * Oakley F1 grips black/yellow * all KKT FMX/LMX Pedals * Skyway Tuff Graphite pedals/cages * nos red Oakley 2 right side only * nos red Oakley 1 left side only * nos chrome KKT FMX left side pedal 9/16


( . )( . )
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#23 2012-06-29 10:07am

spyker
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From: East Van
Registered: 2009-11-19
Posts: 4833

Re: Black Half Link or Black KMC 410 ? Help

thewhitelarrybird wrote:

spyker wrote:

spiderpig22 wrote:

Odyssey Bluebird  and be done with it.  smile

+1000000000000000000000000000000

My friend and I both purchased new chains at the same time,I got the Odyssey Bluebird and he got the Shadow halflink.My Bluebird has yet to stretch and his halflink stretched after a hour of riding.This was almost a year ago,he is constantly adjusting his backwheel to keep his chain tight.

the bluebird is a more expensive KMC chain wink

Knew that already,it's a rebranded KMC 510 HX dropbuster.

I wanted the chain to say Odyssey on it,that's why I paid a little more.


Made In Taiwan #1.....You Have Chosen Wisely!  Guaranteed Strength

Would you trust a lazy drunk to weld up a frame that will be ridden hard?

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#24 2012-07-01 1:27pm

77stroker2
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Re: Black Half Link or Black KMC 410 ? Help

erdalicious wrote:

shoes & fram = nice combo smile

lollollollollollollol Thank You ! smile


Ken=The Number 1 Poser !
Desert Storm Vet. US Navy FC2  ( 1986-1991 )

Left Old Junk ( I Mean Old School)  For New School! Love "THE DARK SIDE"!
As Craig Ferguson Would Say," I Look Forward To Your Hate Mail " !
[img]http://i1116.photobucket.com/albums/k566/shitmyrompers/Modern%20Muscle%20Cars/aaf1aff9-d865-45cf-b141-8ba083757654_zps8a8fc026.jpg[/img]

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#25 2012-07-01 1:31pm

77stroker2
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Re: Black Half Link or Black KMC 410 ? Help

Ok Guys Here's What Matt Did ! I Love It And The 28/9 Gearing, Now That's What I'm Talking About ! big_smile

http://i1116.photobucket.com/albums/k566/shitmyrompers/Loose%20Bikes/P1070704.jpg


Ken=The Number 1 Poser !
Desert Storm Vet. US Navy FC2  ( 1986-1991 )

Left Old Junk ( I Mean Old School)  For New School! Love "THE DARK SIDE"!
As Craig Ferguson Would Say," I Look Forward To Your Hate Mail " !
[img]http://i1116.photobucket.com/albums/k566/shitmyrompers/Modern%20Muscle%20Cars/aaf1aff9-d865-45cf-b141-8ba083757654_zps8a8fc026.jpg[/img]

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