Elina seats sold from Thailand and Hong Kong? Are these recently made?  RSS Feed

#1 2012-11-16 8:08am

CruiserGuy
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Elina seats sold from Thailand and Hong Kong? Are these recently made?

I am looking for an Elina seats and all the NOS seats I see for sale listed here and on eBay are coming out of Thailand and Hong Kong. I have been hearing for a while that they are being counterfeited in Asian countries. Does anyone know for sure if this is true or is it just speculation?

If they are good fakes I would expect them to be priced at the same level as a new remake Kashimax around $70.

One other red flag is they all seem to have the same date on them. Sort of seems strange that the dates are all from the same year don’t you think?

Anyone know for sure what the deal is with these seats before I fork out the big bucks for one?

Thanks for your help!

Last edited by CruiserGuy (2012-11-16 8:10am)


*********************************************Wanted*************************************************
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#2 2012-11-16 8:12am

mtbwrxwagon
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Re: Elina seats sold from Thailand and Hong Kong? Are these recently made?

I personally believe they are fakes. It seems strange to me that these seats keep coming up for sale and always minty-fresh from those countries. I wouldn't buy something that expensive unless you've gotten parts from them before or others can speak up for that member. Too much re-pop from those countries to be a coincidence. I do not have any proof however just my 2¢, but IMO I'd stay away.


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#3 2012-11-16 8:17am

TONE
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Re: Elina seats sold from Thailand and Hong Kong? Are these recently made?

They were rare 12 years ago.  Very hard to find.  Now there are "NOS" ones all over the place.

I think you can gather what I think.

smile


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#4 2012-11-16 8:19am

looptailnut
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Re: Elina seats sold from Thailand and Hong Kong? Are these recently made?

I wonder if they all have the same time/date stamps???


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#5 2012-11-16 9:14am

markyp
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Re: Elina seats sold from Thailand and Hong Kong? Are these recently made?

i believe them to be real,what you have to remember is that the Elina's were made in that part of the world so it would make sense that with this old school explosion they should now pop up over there.its the same with all the nos win and redline appproved v bars,again they all originate from the far east which is where they were made.ask yourself this,if a load of nos kuwahara stuff popped up from japan from an old bike shop that shut down you would have to take it as 'the real deal' as we all know that is where kuwahara were made.the far east has caught on to the old school popularity and is now simply emptying its contents on to ebay,thata my stand anyway,i may be wrong

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#6 2012-11-16 9:38am

squirrelsmith
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Re: Elina seats sold from Thailand and Hong Kong? Are these recently made?

markyp wrote:

i believe them to be real,what you have to remember is that the Elina's were made in that part of the world so it would make sense that with this old school explosion they should now pop up over there.its the same with all the nos win and redline appproved v bars,again they all originate from the far east which is where they were made.ask yourself this,if a load of nos kuwahara stuff popped up from japan from an old bike shop that shut down you would have to take it as 'the real deal' as we all know that is where kuwahara were made.the far east has caught on to the old school popularity and is now simply emptying its contents on to ebay,thata my stand anyway,i may be wrong

sounds reasonable

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#7 2012-11-16 9:50am

corollagts
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Re: Elina seats sold from Thailand and Hong Kong? Are these recently made?

My guess is fake.  Too many of them have popped up.


Approved list of GIFTING buyers or sellers: Pishposh, bmxbooger, jim crothers, Larock, Repnout, Iceman, jasonregal, moshnmore, The bikers, Ikilledit, OLDskullBMXER, Jeno007, Combover, Dcbmx1, CRUZR_ADDICT, 604birdman, brokenspoke2012, Capn_Crunch, No100Sy, BMXKID4EVER, Vbiker, tricky69, TONE, electrongeek, beej1968, Joe Buffardi, Mothwasp, SE666, looptailnut, buy-sell-trade, young@heart, Vintage Chromoly, hokuspokus74, slapanman, Datsbad, flat87-92, ninjaawesome, allena2, 37yearoldkid, Notheld, Draw, heyslugger, shock6, MarkyMark1976, blownrsz, mwjbmxguy99, cmaciaszek, mark@mccorkles.net, markanthony, flock53, Araya51,  jsadamski, joe6187, 09mikeydread, 84pk, sexyachocolate.

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#8 2012-11-16 9:51am

Mantronix7
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Re: Elina seats sold from Thailand and Hong Kong? Are these recently made?

During the early to mid 80's they were sold in basketloads for $20 each. Bmx were very popular then before video games came out and the sport came to a halt. People who started collecting bmx stuff bought them up a few years back and just kept them until the prices are high enough to let them go. No fakes on Elina's here in Thailand. We had lots of bmx stuff lying around back in the day just as much as folks in the States had Mongooses, etc.
tongue

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#9 2012-11-16 10:07am

vintage chromoly
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Re: Elina seats sold from Thailand and Hong Kong? Are these recently made?

Most of the stuff from Thailand is real! As already submitted, Thailand was a major hub for Japanese goods back in the day and as such they have quite a bit of left over inventory.

Tooling up to fake Elian seats seems like a stretch to me. Why not hutch Kashimax if one was trying to make money faking seats?

Think about it. hmm


unions.... the folks who brought you the weekend!
Your - belongs to you....You're - You are /Its - Belongs to it....It's - It is / Brake - Slows your car....Break - Falls apart
There - Not here....Their - Not yours....They're - they are
Here - Not there....Hear - To perceive sound
Lose - To not win....Loose - Not tight
Sale - this is FOR SALE....Sell - Going to get rid of
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#10 2012-11-16 10:21am

CruiserGuy
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Re: Elina seats sold from Thailand and Hong Kong? Are these recently made?

I have thought about it and I figure if they could manufacture them back in the 80’s and sell a bunch at $20 a pop why not fire up the molds again and sell less at $200 to $350 a pop? This is over a 1000% increase (yes 1000%)

Less cost in materials and less cost in shipping just one unit at over 1000% increase equals huge profits!

Think about it. hmm

Last edited by CruiserGuy (2012-11-16 10:26am)


*********************************************Wanted*************************************************
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#11 2012-11-16 10:35am

hurlz
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Re: Elina seats sold from Thailand and Hong Kong? Are these recently made?

I work for a Japanese owned company.  I have been to Japan.  There are no big old warehouses, they don't have the room.  They are very strict about parts availability once something has been discontinued.  Normal is about 7 years availability on old parts.  What happens is as the inventory sits, it begins to depreciate,  this depreciation value (loss)is held against your profit margin as  a direct hit to the bottom line.  They tag this as "Slow Moving" inventory, that the bank makes you hold cash against in reserve.  (Some crazy economic formula), once something hits 100% reserved, you are basically holding equal amount of cash as it costs to produce that item.  Normal depreciation is about 7 years on an item that has not had any inventory turns in over 2 years (depends on the formula and wha the goods are)
It doesn't make business sense to hold cash in reserve for items that may never sell as it lessens the amount of cash you have available to inventory new items that will sell.
Japan engineers quality items, and they run production in high volume as there is alot of cost in the set-up, however 
even the tooling and presses for molding have a depreciation or usable life span.  A simple tool for injection molding yields about 100,000 - to 250,000 shots or parts.  It has to do with the heat cycling of the tool, and the qulaity of the press etc.
Japan likes to make new items that differ from the old, that way you have to completely replace what you have (Big $) as opposed to repairing it (Lesser $).
Japan sells or scraps the tooling and once a tool is surrendered, anybody can use the tool (not a trademarked or copyrighted name) in industry standard equimpment (injection molding presses conform to an industry standard so you do not get locked into 1 supplier once your tooling is made). 
So long story short, I believe they are REPOPS 100%.
That's not to say they are not as good or even better than the old stuff. 
Not trying to sound like a know it all, just presenting the case as I see it.

Last edited by hurlz (2012-11-16 12:00pm)

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#12 2012-11-16 10:36am

Mantronix7
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Re: Elina seats sold from Thailand and Hong Kong? Are these recently made?

Making the molds and tooling would cost in the tens of thousands of dollars I presume. It wouldnt be worth it unless you will produce thousands of the seats.

I dont think I've seen more than 30 - 50 Elinas sold on ebay or here from Thailand, Hongkong, Taiwan, Malaysia, etc..for the past 2 - 3 years. I do know there are some collectors here that have kept a few sets from back in the day. Selling them now seems to yield the best prices as well as the crappy economy this side of the world is another reason why people are selling them.  I live here and if there are repop seats as you all claim, my hands would be all over it.
tongue

Last edited by Mantronix7 (2012-11-16 10:42am)

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#13 2012-11-16 10:44am

vintage chromoly
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Re: Elina seats sold from Thailand and Hong Kong? Are these recently made?

Mantronix7 wrote:

Making the molds and tooling would cost in the tens of thousands of dollars I presume. It wouldnt be worth it unless you will produce thousands of the seats.

Exactly!

Also, nobody is saying the inventory is in Japan. wink

These parts are coming out of Thailand, which was a major shipping hub for Japanese goods in the eighties.


unions.... the folks who brought you the weekend!
Your - belongs to you....You're - You are /Its - Belongs to it....It's - It is / Brake - Slows your car....Break - Falls apart
There - Not here....Their - Not yours....They're - they are
Here - Not there....Hear - To perceive sound
Lose - To not win....Loose - Not tight
Sale - this is FOR SALE....Sell - Going to get rid of
Since - From then till now... Scents - Smells..... Sense - Conscious awareness....Cents - pennies

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#14 2012-11-16 10:47am

CruiserGuy
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Re: Elina seats sold from Thailand and Hong Kong? Are these recently made?

Mantronix7 wrote:

Making the molds and tooling would cost in the tens of thousands of dollars I presume. It wouldnt be worth it unless you will produce thousands of the seats.

I dont think I've seen more than 30 - 50 Elinas sold on ebay or here from Thailand, Hongkong, Taiwan, Malaysia, etc..for the past 2 - 3 years. I do know there are some collectors here that have kept a few sets from back in the day. Selling them now seems to yield the best prices as well as the crappy economy this side of the world is another reason why people are selling them.  I live here and if there are repop seats as you all claim, my hands would be all over it.
tongue

So are you saying that is impossible that the old molds still exist and could have been used again? Like I said a few hundred at $200 to $350 a pop beats thousands at $20 a pop or should I say repop?


*********************************************Wanted*************************************************
Black 26” Cruiser Comp III Tires orphan or pairs, Black anodized Original Hutch deep H stem,  Black on White Unitron grips, Black Oakley 3 grips, Black Comp II or III with blue green or yellow labels 20/24, Chrome original Hutch pads.

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#15 2012-11-16 10:49am

hurlz
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Re: Elina seats sold from Thailand and Hong Kong? Are these recently made?

A simple Injection molding tool to make the seats would cost about $20,000 US.
So they sat where for 30+ years. They don't stock stuff, they make it and move it.

Last edited by hurlz (2012-11-16 10:55am)

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#16 2012-11-16 10:57am

vintage chromoly
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Re: Elina seats sold from Thailand and Hong Kong? Are these recently made?

hurlz wrote:

A simple Injection molding tool to make the seats would cost about $20,000 US.
So they sat where for 30+ years.  Have you been to Thailand?  they don't stock stuff, they make it!

Are you saying that you are 100% positive that somebody in Thailand didn't find a couple boxes of old bmx gear? That is it utterly impossible that some "nos" gear is left in Thailand.

At tens of thousands of dollars to set up a run of very average bmx seats, one would have to be a fool!

Maybe you have inventoried every square inch of ever building in Asia and you can testify, without a doubt, that every "nos" bmx part that comes from that part of the world is fake.


unions.... the folks who brought you the weekend!
Your - belongs to you....You're - You are /Its - Belongs to it....It's - It is / Brake - Slows your car....Break - Falls apart
There - Not here....Their - Not yours....They're - they are
Here - Not there....Hear - To perceive sound
Lose - To not win....Loose - Not tight
Sale - this is FOR SALE....Sell - Going to get rid of
Since - From then till now... Scents - Smells..... Sense - Conscious awareness....Cents - pennies

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#17 2012-11-16 11:00am

vintage chromoly
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Re: Elina seats sold from Thailand and Hong Kong? Are these recently made?

hurlz wrote:

A simple Injection molding tool to make the seats would cost about $20,000 US.
So they sat where for 30+ years. They don't stock stuff, they make it and move it.

No manufacturer makes items to "stock" for 30+ years! wink

Sometimes, every last item does not sell and then we are left with......wait for it......."nos" items!


unions.... the folks who brought you the weekend!
Your - belongs to you....You're - You are /Its - Belongs to it....It's - It is / Brake - Slows your car....Break - Falls apart
There - Not here....Their - Not yours....They're - they are
Here - Not there....Hear - To perceive sound
Lose - To not win....Loose - Not tight
Sale - this is FOR SALE....Sell - Going to get rid of
Since - From then till now... Scents - Smells..... Sense - Conscious awareness....Cents - pennies

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#18 2012-11-16 11:00am

BirdDog
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Re: Elina seats sold from Thailand and Hong Kong? Are these recently made?

I agree with hurlzs


"Everyone who knows the Texans, or who has heard of them, would naturally conclude that they never would submit to be disarmed. Any government that would attempt to disarm its people is despotic; and any people that would submit to it deserves to be slaves!"

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#19 2012-11-16 11:02am

ncmalko1
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Re: Elina seats sold from Thailand and Hong Kong? Are these recently made?

I'm liking everyones arguments. My feeling is there haven't been tons of them on ebay. You still don't see white and blue ones very often. If they were being repopped you'd probably see one seller with 25 oof each color. I haven't seen that. Does that make me right? No! But its my guess they aren't being repopped.


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#20 2012-11-16 11:04am

Mantronix7
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Re: Elina seats sold from Thailand and Hong Kong? Are these recently made?

This is dead stock taken in 2009 in Osaka, Japan. There are still these remenants around in case some of you still beleive bmx parts are rare as gold and not available in other countries. Nuff' said.

http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff249/mantronix7/L11005881.jpg
http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff249/mantronix7/L11005871.jpg
http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff249/mantronix7/L11005901.jpg
http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff249/mantronix7/L11006031.jpg

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#21 2012-11-16 11:05am

erdalicious
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Re: Elina seats sold from Thailand and Hong Kong? Are these recently made?

There was a guy that found over 1000 Elina seats somewhere in Asia long time ago wink


WTB: * Oakley F1 grips black/yellow * all KKT FMX/LMX Pedals * Skyway Tuff Graphite pedals/cages * nos red Oakley 2 right side only * nos red Oakley 1 left side only * nos chrome KKT FMX left side pedal 9/16


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#22 2012-11-16 11:07am

vintage chromoly
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Re: Elina seats sold from Thailand and Hong Kong? Are these recently made?

This argument that a bunch of enterprising guys in Thailand are making bmx gear to screw a handful of bmx enthusiasts comes up every few years.

It's always stuff that nobody wanted back in the day.

No everything is a scam guys. Sometimes stuff is left over and somebody finds it and brings it to market.


unions.... the folks who brought you the weekend!
Your - belongs to you....You're - You are /Its - Belongs to it....It's - It is / Brake - Slows your car....Break - Falls apart
There - Not here....Their - Not yours....They're - they are
Here - Not there....Hear - To perceive sound
Lose - To not win....Loose - Not tight
Sale - this is FOR SALE....Sell - Going to get rid of
Since - From then till now... Scents - Smells..... Sense - Conscious awareness....Cents - pennies

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#23 2012-11-16 11:10am

vintage chromoly
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Re: Elina seats sold from Thailand and Hong Kong? Are these recently made?

Mantronix7 wrote:

This is dead stock taken in 2009 in Osaka, Japan. There are still these remenants around in case some of you still beleive bmx parts are rare as gold and not available in other countries. Nuff' said.

http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff24 … 005881.jpg
http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff24 … 005871.jpg
http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff24 … 005901.jpg
http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff24 … 006031.jpg

Bingo! Now where did that come from? Hurls knows for certain that absolutely no "nos" gear is left in Asia as they simply don't stock stuff. You know, they like to sell, not save stuff. lol


unions.... the folks who brought you the weekend!
Your - belongs to you....You're - You are /Its - Belongs to it....It's - It is / Brake - Slows your car....Break - Falls apart
There - Not here....Their - Not yours....They're - they are
Here - Not there....Hear - To perceive sound
Lose - To not win....Loose - Not tight
Sale - this is FOR SALE....Sell - Going to get rid of
Since - From then till now... Scents - Smells..... Sense - Conscious awareness....Cents - pennies

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#24 2012-11-16 11:11am

vintage chromoly
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Re: Elina seats sold from Thailand and Hong Kong? Are these recently made?

erdalicious wrote:

There was a guy that found over 1000 Elina seats somewhere in Asia long time ago wink

Impossible! They make stuff to sell, not keep! wink lol


unions.... the folks who brought you the weekend!
Your - belongs to you....You're - You are /Its - Belongs to it....It's - It is / Brake - Slows your car....Break - Falls apart
There - Not here....Their - Not yours....They're - they are
Here - Not there....Hear - To perceive sound
Lose - To not win....Loose - Not tight
Sale - this is FOR SALE....Sell - Going to get rid of
Since - From then till now... Scents - Smells..... Sense - Conscious awareness....Cents - pennies

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#25 2012-11-16 11:12am

Mantronix7
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Re: Elina seats sold from Thailand and Hong Kong? Are these recently made?

vintage chromoly wrote:

Mantronix7 wrote:

This is dead stock taken in 2009 in Osaka, Japan. There are still these remenants around in case some of you still beleive bmx parts are rare as gold and not available in other countries. Nuff' said.

http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff24 … 005881.jpg
http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff24 … 005871.jpg
http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff24 … 005901.jpg
http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff24 … 006031.jpg

Bingo! Now where did that come from? Hurls knows for certain that absolutely no "nos" gear is left in Asia as they simply don't stock stuff. You know, they like to sell, not save stuff. lol

lollollol

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