S&M guys- school me on LTF vs. a Black Bike  RSS Feed

#1 2012-11-05 6:49am

Advan
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S&M guys- school me on LTF vs. a Black Bike

What are the main differences between an LTF and a Black Bike frame?  When I compare the two from the side and angles, they look near identical.  Does the brake bridge mean anything?


Wanted- White Industries Freewheel 19T and 20T, and Big Gulp bars- because I think they look goofy enough to cruise with!

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#2 2012-11-05 11:37am

nintendoninja
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Re: S&M guys- school me on LTF vs. a Black Bike

Ltf has thinner tubing...
Blackbike has euro bb...

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#3 2012-11-05 11:42am

papalone13
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Re: S&M guys- school me on LTF vs. a Black Bike

im no expert on geometries, but i thought i remember reading on s&m's website that a dirtbike was essentialy the same thing as a blackbike, but without capped stays. and i think i remember reading that a cam wood 2 had the same geometry as the LTF. id honestly have to look into it but if those were true, than an LTF would be better for street and a black bike would be better for dirt? i own an ltf and the rear end is so short that my heels hit the pegs. greatest street frame ever though.

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#4 2012-11-05 11:45am

wds
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Re: S&M guys- school me on LTF vs. a Black Bike

I can't remember all the Specs, but the Black Bike had a 74.5 ht angle & the LTF had a 75 ht angle.
-Bill


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#5 2012-11-05 11:49am

wds
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Re: S&M guys- school me on LTF vs. a Black Bike

Google is your friend.

Black Bike specs:
http://www.albes.com/browseproducts/S-M … FRAME.HTML

LTF Specs:
http://digbmx.mpora.com/dig-this/produc … ltf-frame/

Also, despite the Black Bike specs from Albe's above, I'd say the bulk of the Black Bikes were Euro BB.
-Bill

Last edited by wds (2012-11-05 11:51am)


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#6 2012-11-05 3:01pm

blueep3piece
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Re: S&M guys- school me on LTF vs. a Black Bike

The black bike started out as a revised PBR frame but with seatstay brake mounts, integrated headset, and a euro bb. Most of them were black, with a couple chrome and white versions. It retained the lower wishbone chainstay design. The original blacks came with black flag type decals with a different mock album cover head tube decal that denotes the frame length. At some point the V1 decals changed to a script type font. V2 black bikes were all flat black, mid bb with smaller dropouts than V1's. The current dirt bikes have taken all the black bike styling and weight saving cues.

The LTF frames had small dropouts, brake mounts that we're shorter and closer to the frame or removable, tapered seat and chainstays, different headtube, tapered seat tube and a tad lighter than the blacks.

Last edited by blueep3piece (2012-11-05 3:03pm)


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#7 2012-11-05 3:09pm

Roy Munson
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Re: S&M guys- school me on LTF vs. a Black Bike

Ltf and cw2 have completely different geometry and feel. I know because I own both and ride equally.
Same rear end length.
Cw 74.5 71 13.625 11.625
Ltf 75 71 13.625 11.8
Cw is fast low and stable
Ltf is taller twitchy and feels bout the same in speed(minus my shatty ratchet hub)
Same standover height as well.

Black bike feels nothing like either nor does the dirt bike. Dirt bike is black bike. But without the wishbone

Ltf can clear a 33t gear
Cw2 can't clear 30t with perfect chain alignment and the chain slaps the seat stays.

Bb height changes the way a bike rides noticeably.

Last edited by Roy Munson (2012-11-05 3:11pm)


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#8 2012-11-05 4:14pm

popawoolie
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Re: S&M guys- school me on LTF vs. a Black Bike

I would get a black bike over a ltf

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#9 2012-11-05 4:35pm

nintendoninja
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Re: S&M guys- school me on LTF vs. a Black Bike

popawoolie wrote:

I would get a black bike over a ltf

+1
Blackbikes can take a beating cool

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#10 2012-11-05 5:16pm

wds
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Re: S&M guys- school me on LTF vs. a Black Bike

blueep3piece wrote:

The black bike started out as a revised PBR frame but with seatstay brake mounts, integrated headset, and a euro bb. Most of them were black, with a couple chrome and white versions

One correction, there was one white one. It was a custom order.
Chrome on the other hand was a run of 50 - 100.
-Bill


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#11 2012-11-05 6:02pm

trailclimber
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Re: S&M guys- school me on LTF vs. a Black Bike

Heres my black bike, with script Decals serial #H5C001
big_smile
http://i514.photobucket.com/albums/t343/CGPR2010/2012-09-30_00-44-35_115.jpg
http://i514.photobucket.com/albums/t343/CGPR2010/black%20bike/2012-09-30_00-45-40_328.jpg
Its nice.

Last edited by trailclimber (2012-11-05 6:03pm)

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#12 2012-11-06 5:17am

blueep3piece
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Re: S&M guys- school me on LTF vs. a Black Bike

Black Bikes rule. that is all.


current school > your school

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#13 2012-11-06 5:19am

Advan
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Re: S&M guys- school me on LTF vs. a Black Bike

So, is it sacrilegious to paint a Black Bike red or blue in the S&M community? big_smile

I have come to the conclusion for sure that the frame I have, as well as another frame, is a Black Bike.


Wanted- White Industries Freewheel 19T and 20T, and Big Gulp bars- because I think they look goofy enough to cruise with!

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#14 2012-11-06 5:29am

blueep3piece
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Re: S&M guys- school me on LTF vs. a Black Bike

Advan wrote:

So, is it sacrilegious to paint a Black Bike red or blue in the S&M community? big_smile

I have come to the conclusion for sure that the frame I have, as well as another frame, is a Black Bike.

what sizes are your black bikes? I'm willing to trade my 20.5" black for a 21" black. mine would be a prime example for a respray and isn't long enough.

I personally wouldn't want any other color, but I have seen a handful and they still look good.

Last edited by blueep3piece (2012-11-06 5:32am)


current school > your school

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#15 2012-11-06 5:34am

blueep3piece
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Re: S&M guys- school me on LTF vs. a Black Bike

wow I need to get my mind out of the gutter. just read that again and it sounds a little http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_B-UsXYlocGQ/SWaPquAf8UI/AAAAAAAAAEw/LjJ2ose1MHc/s400/limp+wrist.jpg


current school > your school

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#16 2012-11-06 6:06am

RDB
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From: Decatur, IL
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Re: S&M guys- school me on LTF vs. a Black Bike

Advan wrote:

So, is it sacrilegious to paint a Black Bike red or blue in the S&M community? big_smile

I have come to the conclusion for sure that the frame I have, as well as another frame, is a Black Bike.

you should trade one of those(if one is a 21"TT) for a Solid frame lol


no, really, you should cool

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#17 2012-11-06 6:21am

Advan
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Re: S&M guys- school me on LTF vs. a Black Bike

21" TT is small enough for me.  My kid's Black Bike rides perfect, so I am inclined to ride along with him in the bowls.

Last edited by Advan (2012-11-06 6:22am)


Wanted- White Industries Freewheel 19T and 20T, and Big Gulp bars- because I think they look goofy enough to cruise with!

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#18 2012-11-06 6:30am

Jerry A Hutcher
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From: Ft. Lauderdale, FL
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Re: S&M guys- school me on LTF vs. a Black Bike

I have both as well..Black Bike is a far better bike for sure....The tiki is a LTF also... LTF is a lower stand over hight too..
A look.....
LTF Tiki.
http://i689.photobucket.com/albums/vv251/1hotwolff/kodak3-2011%203660_zpsbca10018.jpg
Black Bike.
http://i689.photobucket.com/albums/vv251/1hotwolff/kodak2011874.jpg
LTF.
http://i689.photobucket.com/albums/vv251/1hotwolff/kodak2011907.jpg

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#19 2012-11-06 7:41am

Advan
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Re: S&M guys- school me on LTF vs. a Black Bike

Jerry- NICE collection!  Looks like you got all of the bases covered!

Jerry A Hutcher wrote:

I have both as well..Black Bike is a far better bike for sure....The tiki is a LTF also... LTF is a lower stand over hight too..
A look.....
LTF Tiki.
http://i689.photobucket.com/albums/vv25 … a10018.jpg
Black Bike.
http://i689.photobucket.com/albums/vv25 … 011874.jpg
LTF.
http://i689.photobucket.com/albums/vv25 … 011907.jpg


Wanted- White Industries Freewheel 19T and 20T, and Big Gulp bars- because I think they look goofy enough to cruise with!

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#20 2012-11-06 8:28am

Roy Munson
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Re: S&M guys- school me on LTF vs. a Black Bike

To say one is better than the other Is ignorant. It's all depends on the style or riding you do and how you want it to feel/ride.  Any frame will dent any frame can crack.


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#21 2012-11-06 8:36am

RDB
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From: Decatur, IL
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Re: S&M guys- school me on LTF vs. a Black Bike

Roy Munson wrote:

To say one is better than the other Is ignorant. It's all depends on the style or riding you do and how you want it to feel/ride.  Any frame will dent any frame can crack.

+1

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#22 2012-11-06 9:23am

Jerry A Hutcher
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From: Ft. Lauderdale, FL
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Re: S&M guys- school me on LTF vs. a Black Bike

Roy Munson wrote:

To say one is better than the other Is ignorant. It's all depends on the style or riding you do and how you want it to feel/ride.  Any frame will dent any frame can crack.

True...Cause ido love em all....tongue

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#23 2014-03-10 5:36am

tecnic1
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Re: S&M guys- school me on LTF vs. a Black Bike

Sorry to necro, but how is black bike for sprocker clearance?  Could I get a 39T on there?

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#24 2014-03-10 8:17am

popawoolie
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Re: S&M guys- school me on LTF vs. a Black Bike

Yep, a 39 fits fine

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#25 2014-03-10 8:18am

Roy Munson
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Re: S&M guys- school me on LTF vs. a Black Bike

36 is the most I would try will good chainline


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