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Not meaning this to be a call-out session or anything like that - I am not going to mention names because the purpose of this post is not to belittle the owner. It just strikes me as the saddest thing I have seen in my years of being a collector.

This was about as rare as it comes - a survivor RL20II

I offered the owner any choice of a number of frames I had at Chip's at the time, but he wasnt interested - fair enough, its his stuff, after all, and he is by no means obliged to deal with me at all.

Then he posted pics of this:

The original teal frame has been lost forever. You can still see remnants of the original teal in the bottom bracket.

I know, and fully accept, that he is the owner and can do whatever he wants with his stuff, as is his right to do so. Just seems to me to be the biggest loss I have seen in the hobby so far. Very sad.

I know that the OS-BMX guys would cry at this, as they are very much pro survivor - just wanted to know what you guys thought about this.

oldhead1 · 2009-11-02 8:17am

subwax wrote:
the owner can do whatever he wants with his stuff

I think you said it best, but I can see your point as well.

subwax · 2009-11-02 8:21am

Absolutely - I am not trying to take away his right to do that, its just a crying shame that we all have lost a survivor frame like that - there are hardly any o/g teal frames out there any more. Its almost like the hazard yellow frame now.

Lets consider the value then - I'd be interested to see what people think of the value of (a) the original frameset, and (b) the restored frameset.

babywill · 2009-11-02 8:27am

That is like painting a hitler mustage on the mona lisa. or letting brittany spears rewrite Tschaikowskys symphony no. 2!!! sad!

subwax · 2009-11-02 8:31am

I have to say I agree with you - its a loss, for sure.

thegarman · 2009-11-02 8:35am

Its hard to describe, but as my evolution in this hobby continues, I have become an almost militant "pro survivor" kinda guy...

<----see "my bikes" the 86 World Tour is beat, but I wouldnt change it for anything. I have a few "repainted" bikes, and I have gone on record as saying "my new paint has no soul"

Save a Survivor, you'll be glad you did.

Gar

Last edited by thegarman (2009-11-02 12:25pm)

jimhrabe · 2009-11-02 8:36am

Thats a shame but to each their own I guess

00_Duck · 2009-11-02 8:37am

I'm on the fence. I love both colors but would ride the teal one more. And I definitely would have rocked it that condition too. Although I am not a hardcore collector and my builds run on the side of custom rather than purist restorations. With that being said would I pay more for a repowdered one Vs Original Paint? Depends on the condition and the color for me.

Although, in the end sometimes you just have to work with what you have because it is way too expensive to have 1 of each color or wait for another one to pop up in decent enough shape to start working with.

I think it will look great when completed.

reservoir.grizzly · 2009-11-02 8:39am

I didn't know you were into survivors...I actually thought you restored all your 20II's. I probably would've left the frameset teal, but the paint isn't perfect, so I can see why it was restored. Plus it would be impossible to find survivor teal bars. I guess it all depends on the owners intentions; ride or display. I like the survivor and the restored, both equally.

DelMccoury · 2009-11-02 8:40am

if i really wanted to do that and understood the value of the survivor i would probably offer it up in the trade section for a 20II that was in need of a new coat.

subwax · 2009-11-02 8:41am

I have repainted quite a few RL20II's but I only paint those that have no paint left on them at all, have major dents and dings, or have prevoiusly been restored. I have a number of o/g RL20II's, and REALLY was wishing that I could save this one.

subwax · 2009-11-02 8:44am

reservoir.grizzly wrote:
I didn't know you were into survivors...I actually thought you restored all your 20II's.

Why would you think that?

glenn1011 · 2009-11-02 8:46am

I have done the same to a 86 GT Pro Performer, which is very common, but I wouldn't do it to a Redline RL 20 II. Mine was already stripped when I had it powdered turquoise. Hope that makes sense.

Glenn

DOMPHIPPSIO · 2009-11-02 8:49am

i think it depends on what you want from this hobby. I have a few restored bikes and a few survivors and thats how i like it, some perfect, some authentic. I was almost physically restrained from stripping and repainting a gen 1 us made 84 sport a year ago by a friend over here. Im really glad i did resist now but in other cases im also glad i restored.

Its a shame to see something as rare as this restored but i can see why he has done it. It will look amazing when its fully built in that new colour.

Brian P · 2009-11-02 8:51am

thegarman wrote:
Its hard to describe, but as my evolution in this hobby continues, I have become an almost militant "pro survivor" kinda guy...

that is the biggest point right there.....

most people when finding this hobby want all the bikes to be showroom fresh, it seems as most people mature in the hobby, saving the survivors becomes more the goal.

i know it has with me also.....

that being said, i have a stripped to chrome 86 20-II frame if anyone is contemplating having one with OG paint re-painted, get in touch with me or subwax (i know he has one also) as we would like tosave it....

blindfaith420 · 2009-11-02 9:06am

I’m of the mindset that restoration should done by the mildest means possible… And in the case of this RL20 II, soap and water would have done the trick…

slogun417 · 2009-11-02 9:10am

DelMccoury wrote:
if i really wanted to do that and understood the value of the survivor i would probably offer it up in the trade section for a 20II that was in need of a new coat.

+1

ANTI · 2009-11-02 9:13am

If he had redone the bike in its original color would you guys still think he was wrong. the bike looks pretty sweet the way he did it. if someone buys a 69 roadrunner and its beat to hell is the person wrong to restore it? maybe he dont like to ride a bike that looks beat up. maybe hes not even gonna ride it but thats all up to him its his bike

unfit4society · 2009-11-02 9:14am

all it needs now is some 990 mounts welded to it!

subwax · 2009-11-02 9:16am

ANTI wrote:
If he had redone the bike in its original color would you guys still think he was wrong.

I would absolutely still think it was sad, yes. It will only ever be original once - after the restore, it will never again be like that. You can restore a frame a thousand times, but it will only ever be original once.

To some guys it really isnt important, and I appreciate that. Doesnt stop me from feeling a loss when something like this happens.

mcseforsale · 2009-11-02 9:16am

It's paint. So what.

A lot of us buy frames in that condition SPECIFICALLY to repaint them. If this was a mint survivor, I could see the problem. But, as was, it was beat.

Plus, it's not like the paint code is in the S/N. If it were an old car, would you leave it "OG" even if the floors/trunk/body were rotten?

AJ

Last edited by mcseforsale (2009-11-02 9:18am)

subwax · 2009-11-02 9:20am

MSCE - if you have any RL20II's like this, and want to repaint them - please let me know - I have a few frames that might be better suited for you.

ANTI · 2009-11-02 9:23am

Subwax i understand what your saying but to me its not sad i think if anything he helped preserve the bike for another 25 years. i have a bike out in my shed and it is in survivor condition and i am torn between gettin it repainted or just keeping it the way it is. i just feel like if i restore the paint and other parts that its like bringing it back to its former glory and i would be more proud to ride it maybe its just me

vonmark01 · 2009-11-02 9:24am

yeah im sick ...2 years ago i sandblasted my dads floval flyer he bought new in 1982...it wasn't bad at all..still kickin my self
i should have left it alone still had our shop decal from when we first opened

Last edited by vonmark01 (2009-11-02 9:25am)

hboost · 2009-11-02 9:24am

This is exactly why Mike(Relic) and I never restore bikes in this shape.....they might have a few battle scars, but it adds to the bikes character. Many people talk down on the fact that I rechromed my original Free Agent Free Flight, but they didn't see the corroded/rusty tubing that needed help. Some bikes have to be restored; some don't. This one didn't, and Ernie's silly ass swapped the color for Radberry because it was the flavor of the month at the time. There is not one O.G.RL22 that O.G. RL2Oii has....LOL.