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Citric Acid Powder (CAP) Rust Removal Demonstration  RSS Feed

#1 2009-03-19 2:08pm

mongoosedrummer
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Citric Acid Powder (CAP) Rust Removal Demonstration

OK, I'm going to try and document this process as best as possible... I've done this a few times but should probably have been more accurate.

Basically, I'm mixing 6 ounces of pure CAP into 1 Gallon of water then I'm going to try and de-rust/clean up some old sprockets. Here goes...

Step 1):Measure out 6 ounces of CAP

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh73/mongoosedrummer/DSC06866.jpg

Step 2): Pour 1 Gallon of tap water into an empty plastic bin using an empty water bottle to measure

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh73/mongoosedrummer/DSC06869.jpg

Step 3): Grab a few rusty sprockets in varying degrees of "rustification" tongue

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh73/mongoosedrummer/DSC06867.jpg

Step 4): Mix the CAP and Water

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh73/mongoosedrummer/DSC06870.jpg
http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh73/mongoosedrummer/DSC06872.jpg
http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh73/mongoosedrummer/DSC06873.jpg

Step 5): Drop in the sprockets

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh73/mongoosedrummer/DSC06874.jpg

Step 6): Note the time (3:45pm) and come back and check after around 24 hours (meaning tomorrow, as I just did this a half hour ago)

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh73/mongoosedrummer/DSC06876.jpg


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#2 2009-03-19 5:27pm

StruckBy99
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Re: Citric Acid Powder (CAP) Rust Removal Demonstration

Its been about 4 hours. Can you post a pic of its progress?
I'm interested to see the progress in stages.
Thanks,
Jason

Last edited by StruckBy99 (2009-03-19 5:30pm)


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#3 2009-03-19 10:29pm

mongoosedrummer
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Re: Citric Acid Powder (CAP) Rust Removal Demonstration

StruckBy99 wrote:

Its been about 4 hours. Can you post a pic of its progress?
I'm interested to see the progress in stages.
Thanks,
Jason

Hey Jason, I'm sorry.

I wish I could have posted some 4 hour "interval" pictures for you. My wife and I had to go out to a showcase for a new artist here in Nashville tonight. We just got home and it's too late to take any pictures for you... Plus, it's now been almost 9 hours.

Don't worry though, I've done this before and you can't really see anything different within the first 12 hours or so anyway. I'll be sure to get some more pictures up tomorrow as this process get's done. Hopefully, it will work out OK.

Right now, I'm trying to figure out the ratio I used and I'm hoping that it was alright... I'm worried that it might have been too weak...sad

I used 6 ounces of CAP per 1 Gallon. hmm This means...

If, 1 Gallon = 128 fluid ounces...

It should be a basic ratio of 32 ounces of water to 1.5 ounces of CAP I think... Hmmm... We need Deme here to calculate the exact ratio. I think I may be out of my league on this technical/scientific stuff. sad

It would be really bad if my original "6 ounces of CAP to 1 Gallon of water ratio" wasn't strong enough... Anyhow, I'll be posting the results one way or another tomorrow.

I hope I don't mess up!!! smile


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#4 2009-03-20 7:31am

deme
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Re: Citric Acid Powder (CAP) Rust Removal Demonstration

2 oz per liter you were using translates to 8 oz per gallon (roughly)
1 US gallon is 3.8 liter's
2(oz) x 3.8 = 7.6
so your new solution is a little weaker than what you normally use but, eh close enough for government work.

now lets see some pics

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#5 2009-03-20 9:24am

mongoosedrummer
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Re: Citric Acid Powder (CAP) Rust Removal Demonstration

OK... I'm back. I just completed the process. It was not quite 24 hours. It was more like 19 hours. Anyhow, it was a mild bath and probably would have been done in less time if it had been a bit stronger.

My ratio was 6 ounces of CAP to 1 Gallon of water. I believe this is approximately a 22/1 ratio. Deme could probably pinpoint this for sure.

I would most likely use 8 ounces of CAP per 1 Gallon of water next time. Just to speed things up a little...

Last steps...

Step 7): Check the time - 10:45am Roughly 19 hours... Looks ready.

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh73/mongoosedrummer/DSC06877.jpg

Step 8): Light scrub with with a non scratch pad (half and half shot here)

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh73/mongoosedrummer/DSC06878.jpg

Step 9): Admire the transformation! tongue Total time to clean off and dry these sprockets after the bath, under 10 minutes...

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh73/mongoosedrummer/DSC06881.jpg

To take them to the next level, you could just do some light polishing with Mothers to make them really pop.


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#6 2009-03-20 9:26am

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Re: Citric Acid Powder (CAP) Rust Removal Demonstration

I forgot to add the final "before and after" shots:

Before:

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh73/mongoosedrummer/DSC06868.jpg

After:

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh73/mongoosedrummer/DSC06880.jpg


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#7 2009-03-20 10:23am

RusT808
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Re: Citric Acid Powder (CAP) Rust Removal Demonstration

mongoosedrummer

I think I seen somewhere you used aluminum foil for light rust on chrome, I tried it on an old frame and it worked well, even gave it a shine.


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#8 2009-03-20 12:51pm

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Re: Citric Acid Powder (CAP) Rust Removal Demonstration

Yeah, the Aluminum Foil thing is pretty cool. I used some light Canola oil with it, but I've heard Coke or Pepsi works really well too. Probably because of the acids. As long as there is some moisture being used with the Aluminum Foil, it seems to really work well. The light oil seemed to leave a nice shine for me.

After some research about it, I found out the reason why it works:

"Aluminium has a higher reduction potential than the iron in steel, which may help transfer oxygen atoms from the iron to the aluminium. The aluminium foil is softer than steel and will not scratch it, as steel wool will, but as the aluminium oxidizes, the aluminium oxide produced becomes a fine metal polishing compound."


I found the old photos of that demonstration which took about 5 minutes. Here they are:

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh73/mongoosedrummer/DSC05736.jpg
http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh73/mongoosedrummer/DSC05737.jpg
http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh73/mongoosedrummer/DSC05739.jpg
http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh73/mongoosedrummer/DSC05742.jpg


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#9 2009-03-20 1:11pm

StruckBy99
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Re: Citric Acid Powder (CAP) Rust Removal Demonstration

I love write ups like this. smile Great job.


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#10 2009-03-20 1:23pm

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Re: Citric Acid Powder (CAP) Rust Removal Demonstration

big_smile yup, simple and sweet big_smile


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#11 2009-03-21 9:25am

mongoosedrummer
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Re: Citric Acid Powder (CAP) Rust Removal Demonstration

Thanks for the comments guys... Glad it worked out on this. Again, it wasn't a very strong bath, but it shows how little you really need. I'm going to stick with around 8 ounces of CAP per Gallon of water for the basic ratio/mix from now on. That is probably just right. cool

I'm not sure what that exact ratio is but I'll try to figure it out later unless Deme or someone else does first.


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#12 2009-03-21 10:11am

deme
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Re: Citric Acid Powder (CAP) Rust Removal Demonstration

8 oz to a gallon is a dilution ratio of 16:1.....

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#13 2009-03-21 12:28pm

mongoosedrummer
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Re: Citric Acid Powder (CAP) Rust Removal Demonstration

Thanks for that calculation Deme. smile


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#14 2009-04-15 8:36pm

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Re: Citric Acid Powder (CAP) Rust Removal Demonstration

You know how they say, if life gives you lemons, make lemonade.  I have a ton of lemons.  Anybody experiment with lemon juice?

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#15 2009-04-15 9:54pm

mongoosedrummer
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Re: Citric Acid Powder (CAP) Rust Removal Demonstration

Guys who collect and refurbish old beer cans are really into rust removal without damaging the substrate or logos etc.

Years ago, many of them used lemon juice. When it became too expensive, they went to Citric Acid Powder instead. Many, many types of acid will remove rust. CAP is only one.

I'm certainly not the first guy to use CAP for rust removal... It became popular because it's pretty much harmless (it is a food and beverage additive after all), is dirt cheap in bulk (especially off Ebay) and works as good or better than anything out there. Roughly 8 ounces per gallon of water will take the rust off anything under 24 hours and not leave any weird discolorations, stains or white residue like OA and Vinegar can sometimes.

If you try using lemon juice, please post some pictures. I'm positive it will work. :)


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#16 2009-04-15 10:05pm

McLovin
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Re: Citric Acid Powder (CAP) Rust Removal Demonstration

I was going to soak a frame this weekend, was going to use vinegar but now I think I'll try Citric Acid.  I don't have time to buy over eBay... where locally could I try to find CAP?

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#17 2009-04-15 10:15pm

mongoosedrummer
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Re: Citric Acid Powder (CAP) Rust Removal Demonstration

Call some high end grocery stores like Whole Foods and also check with beer and wine making supply stores. They often have it.

It's sometimes called "Sour Salt" in Kosher cooking.

It's also used in photography studios for stop baths. You might check into photo development supply stores as well.

Retail, it's usually around $10.00 a pound. Off Ebay, it can usually be found around $4.00 per pound often with free shipping.

Last edited by mongoosedrummer (2009-04-15 10:18pm)


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#18 2009-04-15 10:26pm

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Re: Citric Acid Powder (CAP) Rust Removal Demonstration

looks good, will have to try on some things I have.......tongue


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#19 2009-04-16 5:57am

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Re: Citric Acid Powder (CAP) Rust Removal Demonstration

So this is the food grade (ANHYDROUS) stuff you can buy on ebay?


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#20 2009-04-16 9:49am

mongoosedrummer
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Re: Citric Acid Powder (CAP) Rust Removal Demonstration

Yup. Same stuff.


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#21 2009-04-17 5:48am

Auburn_Fanatic
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Re: Citric Acid Powder (CAP) Rust Removal Demonstration

Any idea how long you should leave the oil/foil on the part. I tried it this morning with minimal results.


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#22 2009-04-17 8:11am

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Re: Citric Acid Powder (CAP) Rust Removal Demonstration

Use the foil as a "polishing rag". Rub parts and the rust comes off.


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#23 2009-04-17 8:54am

mongoosedrummer
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Re: Citric Acid Powder (CAP) Rust Removal Demonstration

Yeah, you actually have to scrub with the foil... It'll take a few "bunchs". Don't forget you need a liquid of some kind to get the process working. I use a little Canola oil, but I've heard that using Coke or Pepsi works well too! Seriously. smile


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#24 2009-04-17 6:34pm

StevenFS98
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Re: Citric Acid Powder (CAP) Rust Removal Demonstration

I'm a little late in this thread, but I have a related question. If I've gotten a little bit of milky appearance from soaking in vinegar, even though I'm not finished removing rust, might soaking my dropouts in CAP take the milky appearance off as well as the rust? Can I get a "do over" lol?

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#25 2009-04-17 7:32pm

mongoosedrummer
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Re: Citric Acid Powder (CAP) Rust Removal Demonstration

StevenFS98 wrote:

I'm a little late in this thread, but I have a related question. If I've gotten a little bit of milky appearance from soaking in vinegar, even though I'm not finished removing rust, might soaking my dropouts in CAP take the milky appearance off as well as the rust? Can I get a "do over" lol?

It might. I've never tried to rectify that problem with a CAP bath. I can't see why it wouldn't hurt to try.

I've recently been hearing about discoloration problems from OA and Vinegar baths... You're not the first to have this issue.

It has yet to happen to me with CAP. I've soaked entire dirty Motomags, all kinds of forks, frames, cranks, bars, full pedals and even grips. Never had that problem...

A friend of mine had a slight discoloration from vinegar on his chrome frame. I believe it came out with some polishing with Mothers.

Hope that helps. smile


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